I have to change cloud drive service yet again
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@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@coliver said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@coliver said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I use NC and love it like everyone else. However for this scenario, Office online and one drive is the best tool for what you are trying to accomplish.
It's simple, easy to use and requires very minimal training since the company is already likely utilizing office . It functions just like the desktop versions in every way and makes file sharing extremely easy.
When I tested with OneDrive over a year ago, it wasn't syncing files the way we need. It wasn't letting us sync to desktop any shared folders. I believe it might be able to do this now, I'd have to test again.
We do have Office365 but we don't have accounts for every user individually. Some of our office computers are shared and so multiple people might be working under the same user.
I personally have my own O365 business account for my home business and I've found it to work pretty well although I don'y have any shared folders with other people.
I feel like it's been only a couple months since I scrubbed onedrive off all our computers cause it wasn't working right. Feels wrong to go right back to it again. What a pain.
One Drive Sharing in itself should be sufficient. If I create a file, I can share with certain users or everyone and they are able to see it under "Shared with Me" directly under their OneDrive.
If it is shared in OneDrive, then why copy it to a network shared folder? That doesnt really make any sense? I can understand copying it locally of course, but why the need for it to be in a shared folder?
Btw that is very bad practice to share accounts like that, which I am sure you already know.
To my knowledge (tested about a year ago), OneDrive folders when shared could not be synced to local computers. It would only sync your own folders. This may have changed but local computer sync simply couldn't be done back when I used it.
I'm not doing a second copy to a local shared folder. I simply want local sync period. Obviously if our share becomes a lot larger than 11GB, it will begin to make more sense to not sync absolutely everything. But the folder isn't growing that fast so I'll wait for that day.
Syncing 11 GB just seems like a horrible situation. How do these system deal with file locks?
I'm in your same exact boat. If I want to move to LANLess, I'm going to have to break my users away from a general sync'ed drive - at least in my mind. Sync your personal files, but the central shared filestore - that's likely going to have to go on a checkout like basis with SharePoint or maybe NextCloud - but it will require re-education of users on how to use it.
Modern SaberDAV (the WebDAV server that NextCloud uses) can handle file locks similar to Sharepoint. WebDAV is a transitional technology in my mind but it does a fantastic job of it.
Offline access is the real issue. Apps that understand how to natively talk to something like NC (is that a thing?) or OneDrive or SharePoint seems to really be the future. You open the app, the app has direct access to the data in question.
The problem comes in when you need/want offline access. How do you set it up at an app level for online syncing?
Hence why I called WebDAV a transitional technology. It's good for the applications that can't directly access the date on the webserver. By the way Office natively uses WebDAV to access files on Sharepoint and Onedrive.
How do you do that with traditional on-site SMB shares? Sure you can do offline files but that introduces the same issues that we've been talking about here.
From a central shared drive - you're right, same problem.
@guyinpv - why the need for syncing? are the people really needing offline file access?
Because he has no idea what he is doing.
The answer to what he wants is to use WebDAV properly.
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@obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
You're not using the correct tool for the job IMHO. This isn't what NC/ODFB/etc is for.
I'll say this again.
And I also agree 100% with Jared.
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@obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
You're not using the correct tool for the job IMHO. This isn't what NC/ODFB/etc is for.
I'll say this again.
And I also agree 100% with Jared.
I'll disagree with your quoted statement, because it is perfectly fine to use those solutions in this way. With WebDAV. That is all he has to correctly do.
He can never do what he wants with a sync client design.
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@jaredbusch said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
You're not using the correct tool for the job IMHO. This isn't what NC/ODFB/etc is for.
I'll say this again.
And I also agree 100% with Jared.
He can never do what he wants with a sync client design.
That's what I was referring to. His whole issue is he's doing it wrong. WebDAV correctly would completely resolve it, and obviously using ODFB or SharePoint. Not dicking around with everyone having their own sync'd copy of it like how they were doing it.
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@coliver said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
WebDAV is not the answer to my questions. Nobody here is going to work all day out of Cyberduck.
What... what are you talking about here? WebDAV connects identically to how a SMB share connects on a Windows machine. You simply mount it as a shared drive or add the WebDAV URL as a quick access point.
You are correct. I conflated earlier comments regarding using SCP and Cyberduck, etc.
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@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
i.e. 10 users 15 computers, 5 of them shared, 10 assigned, you'll need at least 11 accounts, or use one of the user's accounts on the 5 shared - but then you have no accountability for that one user - maybe that's not an issue.
It's really not. I'm trying to solve the most basic functionality at this point, which is to simply have a single shared folder that the whole office uses which is very robust.
And I would just get rid of the "cloud" and use a network share except that a few people want access from home and even a couple times from mobile/tablets/laptops, etc. There are ways to do that I know, but I thought cloud sync could easily do this.
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
How do these system deal with file locks?
There are no file locks without special activities. For example on OneDrive, if you open files directly via inside Word/Excel, you can have the system apply a lock (could be wrong).
I know that when we used Box, you could right-click a file and use a submenu to manually apply a lock, and then open the file, then manually remove the lock. But users simply wouldn't use it. Too many steps.The only two ways I know to get out of this is either go back to LAN share and then sync that to a cloud service which can then be attached to offsite/mobiles.
Or secondly, completely change to Google Docs or MS online and tell people to edit docs in the browser, because they support multiple users editing at once. That's never going to happen though.@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Why won't office 365 work? You can sync the user's files locally. I'm not understanding why that won't work for your situation. What am I missing?
- We don't really have "user's files" per se. This is a general share for business docs, invoices, inventory stuff, documentation, etc. And not every document is a MS Office doc.
- I'm ok with offline sync since it's only 11 gigs or so. I'll probably change that strategy once we start climbing to more significant sizes. But my experience with "virtual" file drives has not been great, I like an actual file to be on my actual computer.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Or secondly, completely change to Google Docs or MS online and tell people to edit docs in the browser, because they support multiple users editing at once. That's never going to happen though.
Why not? The users don't want use a browser to work on documents? Cost to much?
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
i.e. 10 users 15 computers, 5 of them shared, 10 assigned, you'll need at least 11 accounts, or use one of the user's accounts on the 5 shared - but then you have no accountability for that one user - maybe that's not an issue.
It's really not. I'm trying to solve the most basic functionality at this point, which is to simply have a single shared folder that the whole office uses which is very robust.
And I would just get rid of the "cloud" and use a network share except that a few people want access from home and even a couple times from mobile/tablets/laptops, etc. There are ways to do that I know, but I thought cloud sync could easily do this.
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
How do these system deal with file locks?
There are no file locks without special activities. For example on OneDrive, if you open files directly via inside Word/Excel, you can have the system apply a lock (could be wrong).
I know that when we used Box, you could right-click a file and use a submenu to manually apply a lock, and then open the file, then manually remove the lock. But users simply wouldn't use it. Too many steps.The only two ways I know to get out of this is either go back to LAN share and then sync that to a cloud service which can then be attached to offsite/mobiles.
Or secondly, completely change to Google Docs or MS online and tell people to edit docs in the browser, because they support multiple users editing at once. That's never going to happen though.@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Why won't office 365 work? You can sync the user's files locally. I'm not understanding why that won't work for your situation. What am I missing?
- We don't really have "user's files" per se. This is a general share for business docs, invoices, inventory stuff, documentation, etc. And not every document is a MS Office doc.
- I'm ok with offline sync since it's only 11 gigs or so. I'll probably change that strategy once we start climbing to more significant sizes. But my experience with "virtual" file drives has not been great, I like an actual file to be on my actual computer.
Have you tried SharePoint via O365?
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@jaredbusch said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@coliver said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@coliver said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I use NC and love it like everyone else. However for this scenario, Office online and one drive is the best tool for what you are trying to accomplish.
It's simple, easy to use and requires very minimal training since the company is already likely utilizing office . It functions just like the desktop versions in every way and makes file sharing extremely easy.
When I tested with OneDrive over a year ago, it wasn't syncing files the way we need. It wasn't letting us sync to desktop any shared folders. I believe it might be able to do this now, I'd have to test again.
We do have Office365 but we don't have accounts for every user individually. Some of our office computers are shared and so multiple people might be working under the same user.
I personally have my own O365 business account for my home business and I've found it to work pretty well although I don'y have any shared folders with other people.
I feel like it's been only a couple months since I scrubbed onedrive off all our computers cause it wasn't working right. Feels wrong to go right back to it again. What a pain.
One Drive Sharing in itself should be sufficient. If I create a file, I can share with certain users or everyone and they are able to see it under "Shared with Me" directly under their OneDrive.
If it is shared in OneDrive, then why copy it to a network shared folder? That doesnt really make any sense? I can understand copying it locally of course, but why the need for it to be in a shared folder?
Btw that is very bad practice to share accounts like that, which I am sure you already know.
To my knowledge (tested about a year ago), OneDrive folders when shared could not be synced to local computers. It would only sync your own folders. This may have changed but local computer sync simply couldn't be done back when I used it.
I'm not doing a second copy to a local shared folder. I simply want local sync period. Obviously if our share becomes a lot larger than 11GB, it will begin to make more sense to not sync absolutely everything. But the folder isn't growing that fast so I'll wait for that day.
Syncing 11 GB just seems like a horrible situation. How do these system deal with file locks?
I'm in your same exact boat. If I want to move to LANLess, I'm going to have to break my users away from a general sync'ed drive - at least in my mind. Sync your personal files, but the central shared filestore - that's likely going to have to go on a checkout like basis with SharePoint or maybe NextCloud - but it will require re-education of users on how to use it.
Modern SaberDAV (the WebDAV server that NextCloud uses) can handle file locks similar to Sharepoint. WebDAV is a transitional technology in my mind but it does a fantastic job of it.
Offline access is the real issue. Apps that understand how to natively talk to something like NC (is that a thing?) or OneDrive or SharePoint seems to really be the future. You open the app, the app has direct access to the data in question.
The problem comes in when you need/want offline access. How do you set it up at an app level for online syncing?
Hence why I called WebDAV a transitional technology. It's good for the applications that can't directly access the date on the webserver. By the way Office natively uses WebDAV to access files on Sharepoint and Onedrive.
How do you do that with traditional on-site SMB shares? Sure you can do offline files but that introduces the same issues that we've been talking about here.
From a central shared drive - you're right, same problem.
@guyinpv - why the need for syncing? are the people really needing offline file access?
Because he has no idea what he is doing.
The answer to what he wants is to use WebDAV properly.
From NextCloud themselves:
The recommended way to synchronize a desktop PC with a Nextcloud server is by using Nextcloud/ownCloud sync clients.
Second, it's pretty stupid to say I don't know what I'm doing because the sync software doesn't do what it's suppose to. What does the software not working have to do with me? If the sync client worked right, there would be no problems at all!
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows. -
@black3dynamite said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Or secondly, completely change to Google Docs or MS online and tell people to edit docs in the browser, because they support multiple users editing at once. That's never going to happen though.
Why not? The users don't want use a browser to work on documents? Cost to much?
Does anybody like working on documents entirely in the browser? Besides MS docs, how would you work on other stuff like Photoshop files, CAD files, flowcharts, any other doc types, those would still require to download/do work/upload which is not an enjoyable process compared to just opening a folder with a shortcut on the desktop and then double-clicking a file.
Plus they lose all the local computer shortcuts for renaming and moving files around, creating them etc. They have to learn a whole new series of tasks for working with files in the web.If that were the only choice, then sure, but it's not the only choice. There should be such a thing in existence called a file sync tool. And there are such things. I'm trying to find one that works solid.
@obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Have you tried SharePoint via O365?
Our account level of O365 doesn't include Sharepoint, just 1TB of OneDrive space.
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So I was checking out WebDAV, I have one connected on a Win7 computer and one on Win10.
Except for the Win10 not connecting until I changed registry entries, they are both connected, but no file locks. In fact this appears to be a big deal in NC still:
https://help.nextcloud.com/t/webdav-lock-on-file-doesnt-work/21451
https://github.com/nextcloud/server/issues/1308
https://github.com/nextcloud/desktop/issues/83#issuecomment-377030532Then some people have problems with the default Win10 WebDAV client:
https://help.nextcloud.com/t/windows-10-and-webdav-access/9091
Not sure what's going on here.On top of that, whenever I open a MS Office documents, it prompts for credentials every.single.time.
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/27213603/How-to-stop-webdav-from-prompting-for-credentials-when-accessing-a-public-internet-based-webdav-site.html
That's annoying, boss would never allow this ridiculous extra step.
So is WebDAV the answer? Kinda meh on that right now. Sure it's not doing local sync, which saves some drive space, but we can't do any work if offline, and annoying prompts, and still no file locks, so really of little benefit it seems. Unless there is a better server than NC which has better support for file locks.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Our account level of O365 doesn't include Sharepoint, just 1TB of OneDrive space.
What are you on the "Business" plan?
Maybe it's worth upgrading someone to the $4 a month more plan and getting a sharepoint site.
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@brrabill said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Our account level of O365 doesn't include Sharepoint, just 1TB of OneDrive space.
What are you on the "Business" plan?
Maybe it's worth upgrading someone to the $4 a month more plan and getting a sharepoint site.
Just one user? Or all users need higher plan to get it?
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@brrabill said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Our account level of O365 doesn't include Sharepoint, just 1TB of OneDrive space.
What are you on the "Business" plan?
Maybe it's worth upgrading someone to the $4 a month more plan and getting a sharepoint site.
Just one user? Or all users need higher plan to get it?
All who are going to use it need to have the plan.
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But I mean you can start with one user (or a few) to see if it fits the bill.
Also, depending on what it is, you could just share the stuff out.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.This sounds like somebody had their computer off for 3 days, and once they powered it on it synced their local files with the NC server, thus putting back files that were once moved/deleted/whatever... Does this sound possible? Is that how the sync client works?
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@bnrstnr said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.This sounds like somebody had their computer off for 3 days, and once they powered it on it synced their local files with the NC server, thus putting back files that were once moved/deleted/whatever... Does this sound possible? Is that how the sync client works?
That's exactly what I think. I just don't know how that is possible if NC is checking time stamps. Surely it has the knowledge to go the other way around. Telling the lagging computer to remove those files, rather than the computer putting them back.
Not only that, but why isn't NC recording that in the audit trails? It doesn't say such-and-so user moved file here. I can't find any trace of the reversal. -
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.Wouldn't this create two files at worst? It's not going to overwrite a file or folder in a different folder
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@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.Wouldn't this create two files at worst? It's not going to overwrite a file or folder in a different folder
You'd think. At worst computer 2 would upload those files back to original folders, and not touch the 2nd folder where they were moved to. But nay nay.
Almost everything connected to NC is an always-on workstation. But we do have have a couple home laptops that come on every once in again. But if this were the case, we'd be dealing with dozens of messed up files, not just occasional reversals like this event.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.Wouldn't this create two files at worst? It's not going to overwrite a file or folder in a different folder
You'd think. At worst computer 2 would upload those files back to original folders, and not touch the 2nd folder where they were moved to. But nay nay.
Almost everything connected to NC is an always-on workstation. But we do have have a couple home laptops that come on every once in again. But if this were the case, we'd be dealing with dozens of messed up files, not just occasional reversals like this event.
I have never seen a reversal of anything I've ever done in Nextcloud. How many users are accessing it?
