MSP or VAR or just avoid
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
So we have a project to refresh a ageing 3-2-1 setup, and from several of Scott's posts (and a few other) but he's more vocal on this topic ..... a SAN doesn't fit until you have several hosts and hundreds of VMs
Normally at least 12 hosts before a SAN starts to make sense. With the amount of compute available in a single server today, that could easily be thousands of VMs.
All I know we need xxTB of space and get sql seek times down to sub 5ms speeds
Considering that a 3-2-1 setup adds latency into the equation, compared to local disk.
So who do we trust?
Nobody but yourself. Seriously, who knows your environment better than you? Ask for advice, yes, but at the end of the day you have to make the final call. I think you've come to the best place to get advice right here, but unless you pay for someone's time to review your setup, we just can't know for sure.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
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@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.
The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.
It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.
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So how do you find a MSP?
As I don't know any companies in the UK that only do services/advice. They all will sell you kit
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@travisdh1 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
Normally at least 12 hosts before a SAN starts to make sense.
It's way higher now. It's like 12 before there is any change, and more like 40+ before it might start to get likely. With modern Network RAID and RAIN scaling past the hypervisor failure domain limits, SAN is beginning to no longer have the "large capacity space" value it had just a few years ago. There is no longer any size where it automatically starts to make sense like it used to.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
So how do you find a MSP?
- You never look for one locally.
- You have at least two in this thread.
MSPs are all over, just waiting for customers. But VARs are willing to be more aggressive and deceptive and companies fall all over themselves to get the "easy" answers from VARs.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
As I don't know any companies in the UK that only do services/advice. They all will sell you kit
In any market, 99% of companeis are VARs, not MSPs / ITSPs. The service provider market is actually very small, and very hard. SPs provide IT services, rather than products. So you have to pay them.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
I think in the UK especially in Wales these sort of things are hard to distinguish as companies here tend to do everything.
It's always trivial to distinguish. What you find in most markets is that no one is going to build an MSP / ITSP in a small market because there are SO few customers who care.
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.
The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.
It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.
I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
I think in the UK especially in Wales these sort of things are hard to distinguish as companies here tend to do everything.
One thing that is really important is that VARs sometimes need to be local, *SPs should not be. There is no locality value to IT, so looking locally, even within your country is often pointless. You should be looking at the UK as a whole, or globally, because companies who want good consulting sure don't care that it is or isn't local, and the SPs that provide it definitely aren't worried about their locality, and the majority of clients are multi-regional anyway.
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Sorry trying to answer and ask questions from a tablet, I an't keeping up with me lol
But this is all good advice and tips for everyone I think. -
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.
The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.
It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.
I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.
That MEANS it's a VAR, always. Anyone who is free, is a salesman.
But there are loads of VARs that know that people use that trick, and offer to sell support too, to confuse customers.
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".
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@rojoloco said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".
There really can be good VARs, they are just few and far between because there is so much more money in being crooked.
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@Breffni-Potter is near London. @Huw3481 is in Nottingham. Not right next door, but closer than across the pond, and both are MSP/ITSPs.
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.
The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.
It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.
I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.
That MEANS it's a VAR, always. Anyone who is free, is a salesman.
Think this gets me confused as we always "talk" to the " engineer " get get a solution
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@rojoloco said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".
There really can be good VARs, they are just few and far between because there is so much more money in being crooked.
Like this shit...
http://www.curiouscables.com/Audiophiles get fucking stupid
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@rojoloco said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".
There really can be good VARs, they are just few and far between because there is so much more money in being crooked.
"I'm in sales" = "I'd _____ your grandma on her birthday to get a sale".
I did sales. I know for a fact that they are a bunch of crooked mafackas. Sell what makes you the biggest commission.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
...a SAN doesn't fit until you have several hosts and hundreds of VMs
Just to be clear on this point....
The number of hosts is a huge factor, but the number of VMs is not. In fact, that you are virtual or physical is not a factor. The value of a SAN is never caused by number of workloads, virtualization, or factors such as that. SAN's value (which is often sans value, see what I did there?) is based on the number of physical hosts combined with the balancing of factors that matter to the business such as capacity and reliability.
SANs are best when you have a huge number of hosts and value low cost over reliability to an extreme degree.
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@kelly thanks for that forgot to see who was here before starting lol.
But again this is all good as a discussion to help others
