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    MSP or VAR or just avoid

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    var msp san pyramid of doom
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    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller @hobbit666
      last edited by

      @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

      But how to you ... get the right solution.

      VARs provide products. MSPs provide support and other IT functions. You pay for advice (or provide it yourself.)

      Think of a VAR like Amazon. How do you get the right product from Amazon or even know that you need to buy something? You either research solutions yourself and know what to buy them go on Amazon to place the order. Or you hire an expert in whatever it is that you are trying to decide about, pay them for their advice, and then go to Amazon and buy what you and they determined you should get.

      It's just "get your IT from IT people" and "buy products from sales people".

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • scottalanmillerS
        scottalanmiller @hobbit666
        last edited by

        @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

        @scottalanmiller so is @JaredBusch a VAR as he's selling his services?

        I should add the "MSP" that does our MPLS will recommend us a solution but are happy for us to source it
        . So if they think something like scale fits we can go direct to them to purchase or go through them

        Doesn't matter if they are "happy to let you source it." Either they are a VAR or they are not a VAR. Any concept of there being a grey area is wrong. VARs are binary. We could spend hours explaining how they make money anyway by recommending something and letting you buy somewhere else as long as they can sell it to you.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @hobbit666
          last edited by

          @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

          @jaredbusch this is also where I get stuck. How do you go about finding the "right" person / company

          Same as with ANYTHING. How do you hire good people? You research, you ask, you interview, you test. But you start by ruling out the people who can't be your option. So anyone who is a VAR, for example, can never be trusted to give advice.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • KellyK
            Kelly
            last edited by

            The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.

            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • travisdh1T
              travisdh1 @hobbit666
              last edited by

              @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

              So we have a project to refresh a ageing 3-2-1 setup, and from several of Scott's posts (and a few other) but he's more vocal on this topic ..... a SAN doesn't fit until you have several hosts and hundreds of VMs

              Normally at least 12 hosts before a SAN starts to make sense. With the amount of compute available in a single server today, that could easily be thousands of VMs.

              All I know we need xxTB of space and get sql seek times down to sub 5ms speeds

              Considering that a 3-2-1 setup adds latency into the equation, compared to local disk.

              So who do we trust?

              Nobody but yourself. Seriously, who knows your environment better than you? Ask for advice, yes, but at the end of the day you have to make the final call. I think you've come to the best place to get advice right here, but unless you pay for someone's time to review your setup, we just can't know for sure.

              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • scottalanmillerS
                scottalanmiller @hobbit666
                last edited by

                @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).

                That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.

                RojoLocoR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller @Kelly
                  last edited by

                  @kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                  The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.

                  The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.

                  It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.

                  KellyK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • hobbit666H
                    hobbit666
                    last edited by

                    So how do you find a MSP?

                    As I don't know any companies in the UK that only do services/advice. They all will sell you kit

                    scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • scottalanmillerS
                      scottalanmiller @travisdh1
                      last edited by

                      @travisdh1 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                      Normally at least 12 hosts before a SAN starts to make sense.

                      It's way higher now. It's like 12 before there is any change, and more like 40+ before it might start to get likely. With modern Network RAID and RAIN scaling past the hypervisor failure domain limits, SAN is beginning to no longer have the "large capacity space" value it had just a few years ago. There is no longer any size where it automatically starts to make sense like it used to.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller @hobbit666
                        last edited by

                        @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                        So how do you find a MSP?

                        1. You never look for one locally.
                        2. You have at least two in this thread.

                        MSPs are all over, just waiting for customers. But VARs are willing to be more aggressive and deceptive and companies fall all over themselves to get the "easy" answers from VARs.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • scottalanmillerS
                          scottalanmiller @hobbit666
                          last edited by

                          @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                          As I don't know any companies in the UK that only do services/advice. They all will sell you kit

                          In any market, 99% of companeis are VARs, not MSPs / ITSPs. The service provider market is actually very small, and very hard. SPs provide IT services, rather than products. So you have to pay them.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • scottalanmillerS
                            scottalanmiller @hobbit666
                            last edited by

                            @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                            I think in the UK especially in Wales these sort of things are hard to distinguish as companies here tend to do everything.

                            It's always trivial to distinguish. What you find in most markets is that no one is going to build an MSP / ITSP in a small market because there are SO few customers who care.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • KellyK
                              Kelly @scottalanmiller
                              last edited by

                              @scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                              @kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                              The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.

                              The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.

                              It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.

                              I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.

                              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @hobbit666
                                last edited by

                                @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                I think in the UK especially in Wales these sort of things are hard to distinguish as companies here tend to do everything.

                                One thing that is really important is that VARs sometimes need to be local, *SPs should not be. There is no locality value to IT, so looking locally, even within your country is often pointless. You should be looking at the UK as a whole, or globally, because companies who want good consulting sure don't care that it is or isn't local, and the SPs that provide it definitely aren't worried about their locality, and the majority of clients are multi-regional anyway.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • hobbit666H
                                  hobbit666
                                  last edited by

                                  Sorry trying to answer and ask questions from a tablet, I an't keeping up with me lol
                                  But this is all good advice and tips for everyone I think.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @Kelly
                                    last edited by scottalanmiller

                                    @kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                    @scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                    @kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                    The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.

                                    The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.

                                    It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.

                                    I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.

                                    That MEANS it's a VAR, always. Anyone who is free, is a salesman.

                                    But there are loads of VARs that know that people use that trick, and offer to sell support too, to confuse customers.

                                    hobbit666H 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • RojoLocoR
                                      RojoLoco @scottalanmiller
                                      last edited by

                                      @scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                      @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                      The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).

                                      That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.

                                      The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".

                                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                      • scottalanmillerS
                                        scottalanmiller @RojoLoco
                                        last edited by

                                        @rojoloco said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                        @scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                        @hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                        The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).

                                        That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.

                                        The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".

                                        There really can be good VARs, they are just few and far between because there is so much more money in being crooked.

                                        JaredBuschJ RojoLocoR 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • KellyK
                                          Kelly
                                          last edited by

                                          @Breffni-Potter is near London. @Huw3481 is in Nottingham. Not right next door, but closer than across the pond, and both are MSP/ITSPs.

                                          hobbit666H 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                          • hobbit666H
                                            hobbit666 @scottalanmiller
                                            last edited by

                                            @scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                            @kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                            @scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                            @kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:

                                            The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.

                                            The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.

                                            It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.

                                            I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.

                                            That MEANS it's a VAR, always. Anyone who is free, is a salesman.

                                            Think this gets me confused as we always "talk" to the " engineer " get get a solution

                                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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