Looking for some neat Server Build Projects
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I’ve tried hard pushing LO in my own company, and the result was like that:
- Power users cannot do some tricky stuff with pivot tables and macros, so they eventually switch back to office;
- Basic users need to open common files with the power users, so it was a big mess of weird formatting, formulas not working etc.
- Customers sometime submits spreadsheets that won’t work on LO.
After two years, I just give up and give o365 to everyone. Maybe a company made of just tech peoples exchanging mails only with other techie can use efficiently LO or even a custom LaTeX template, pure markdown etc, but real companies aren’t like that.
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@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
pivot tables and macros
That crap should be in a database. I effing hate Excel.
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@stacksofplates said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
pivot tables and macros
That crap should be in a database. I effing hate Excel.
I'm always amazed by this, too. How often does it really make sense to have big complicated spreadsheets on desktops? I mean there must be use cases, but it always seems like a bad idea.
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@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@stacksofplates said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
pivot tables and macros
That crap should be in a database. I effing hate Excel.
I'm always amazed by this, too. How often does it really make sense to have big complicated spreadsheets on desktops? I mean there must be use cases, but it always
seems likeis a bad idea.FTFY
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@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
- Basic users need to open common files with the power users, so it was a
My users do not have any issues. LO and MS Office can open each other's native file formats transparently.
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@jaredbusch said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
- Basic users need to open common files with the power users, so it was a
My users do not have any issues. LO and MS Office can open each other's native file formats transparently.
Also if you have to force the issue, there are settings for that. Turn off the warning, and change the default file format to MS versions. Done.
Anyone bitching otherwise for anything but power users doesn't know what they are talking about.
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What? Some of our content is not supported in the ODF file format. And of course we cannot have a double standard.
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Say what you like, we all have preferences. I really like MS Office. LO and OO feel like Win95 apps to me.
And pivot tables and macros are not only DB things. They are quite handy for many purposes, here are a couple of my own use cases.
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Data is not uniform and standardized. We get data as outputs from web apps, product vendors, financial reports, and don't have a say in how other people's data is stored.
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I need a way for non-techy people to basically import->print report. I can use Excel's many data connection tools to import any of these data sources and format them as best as possible.
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Macros can perform more advanced data manipulation tasks like converting values, calculating and combining fields, renaming columns and moving them around, create summaries, and setting up a printable template.
As a nerd, I can work with whatever data I need. I have MySQL installed on my desktop and I often create custom tables for stuff and my own data collecting, but I can't expect others to do the same. Their tools have to be point and click easy, and I don't have time to create custom web apps and desktop apps and databases for it when Excel and some VBA do it just fine.
Since we're in ecommerce, we definitely get all kinds of archaic looking documents from old versions of MS. I even have one data source where they literally do CSV for the column headings and immediately do TSV for the following values, Excel can't even parse that, it uses two different separators in the same file!
The only way out of that is custom code to parse it properly. VBA is pretty strong at it. -
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Say what you like, we all have preferences. I really like MS Office. LO and OO feel like Win95 apps to me.
Do you feel that way about the Ribbon interface on it, too?
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Data is not uniform and standardized. We get data as outputs from web apps, product vendors, financial reports, and don't have a say in how other people's data is stored.
And Excel is the worst format to try to put that in. I'd bet $20 that most of that isn't in xlsx by default. Esp from a web app. That's 99% likely to be retrieved from an API and when you export it from the site, it comes out in CSV format.
Macros can perform more advanced data manipulation tasks like converting values, calculating and combining fields, renaming columns and moving them around, create summaries, and setting up a printable template.
Which is exactly what a database application would do.
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@stacksofplates said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Which is exactly what a database application would do.
But you're still missing the middle man. Who cares if I have a DB application? I do, I have Access and I have MySQL but that means nothing, I still have to convert the data to a format even acceptable by those, and useful for our own business logic.
If I don't do these macros and scripts in Excel, that's fine, but now I just have to do the same thing somewhere else for no real benefit.
And even if I used Access, nobody else knows how to use DB apps. I would have to set up forms and front end views for others to look and edit, which actually creates more workload for me.
Sometimes we sacrifice the "best" and the "ideal" for quick and productive.
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
And even if I used Access, nobody else knows how to use DB apps.
I don't understand. They'd learn to use them just like any other app. No one knows an app until they use it. Nothing is easier than making an app for it, if made properly. Surely this would be the solution, not the problem.
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Sometimes we sacrifice the "best" and the "ideal" for quick and productive.
But often they are the same thing and we just don't realize. I see things like this often where "best" is avoided because of the assumption that it is costly or hard, when it is often "best" specifically because it is fast, easy and cheap.
Maybe not here, but I see this more often than not.
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@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Sometimes we sacrifice the "best" and the "ideal" for quick and productive.
But often they are the same thing and we just don't realize. I see things like this often where "best" is avoided because of the assumption that it is costly or hard, when it is often "best" specifically because it is fast, easy and cheap.
Maybe not here, but I see this more often than not.
In my case, not long ago, they didn't buy Office Pro and so nobody but a couple people even had Access on their computers.
Now within the last few months we finally have Office365 so indeed Access is an option. The next problem becomes storing the database files and dealing with mutli-user issues opening the same files and all that stuff.
I used to use Access for some fairly complex IT management, and it definitely wasn't very productive without creating all the right forms to be able to search and filter and create records and do exports and all that.
Nobody here has ever opened Access, let alone will understand how the database works, where files are stored, how multi-user works, how to browse, search, filter, export, prepare reports and print.But everybody knows how to make some Excel columns fit on one sheet wide and print it.
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
e right forms to be able to search and filter and create records and do exports and all that.
It sounds like you need a @QuixoticJeremy to build a front end for you. This would ultimately serve you and your users a much better solution.
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@dashrender @guyinpv Always an option!
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
But everybody knows how to make some Excel columns fit on one sheet wide and print it.
oh gods no they don't.
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@jaredbusch said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
But everybody knows how to make some Excel columns fit on one sheet wide and print it.
oh gods no they don't.
drag and drop print margin lines like a boss
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Sometimes we sacrifice the "best" and the "ideal" for quick and productive.
But often they are the same thing and we just don't realize. I see things like this often where "best" is avoided because of the assumption that it is costly or hard, when it is often "best" specifically because it is fast, easy and cheap.
Maybe not here, but I see this more often than not.
In my case, not long ago, they didn't buy Office Pro and so nobody but a couple people even had Access on their computers.
Now within the last few months we finally have Office365 so indeed Access is an option. The next problem becomes storing the database files and dealing with mutli-user issues opening the same files and all that stuff.
I used to use Access for some fairly complex IT management, and it definitely wasn't very productive without creating all the right forms to be able to search and filter and create records and do exports and all that.
Nobody here has ever opened Access, let alone will understand how the database works, where files are stored, how multi-user works, how to browse, search, filter, export, prepare reports and print.But everybody knows how to make some Excel columns fit on one sheet wide and print it.
Right, but that's part of the problem. Access is WAY more complicated than making a proper app.
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@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Sometimes we sacrifice the "best" and the "ideal" for quick and productive.
But often they are the same thing and we just don't realize. I see things like this often where "best" is avoided because of the assumption that it is costly or hard, when it is often "best" specifically because it is fast, easy and cheap.
Maybe not here, but I see this more often than not.
In my case, not long ago, they didn't buy Office Pro and so nobody but a couple people even had Access on their computers.
Now within the last few months we finally have Office365 so indeed Access is an option. The next problem becomes storing the database files and dealing with mutli-user issues opening the same files and all that stuff.
I used to use Access for some fairly complex IT management, and it definitely wasn't very productive without creating all the right forms to be able to search and filter and create records and do exports and all that.
Nobody here has ever opened Access, let alone will understand how the database works, where files are stored, how multi-user works, how to browse, search, filter, export, prepare reports and print.But everybody knows how to make some Excel columns fit on one sheet wide and print it.
Right, but that's part of the problem. Access is WAY more complicated than making a proper app.
And making a proper app might be more complicated than Access.
I've often tried to find and test any kind of self-hosted software for managing CRUD DB projects.
I've longed for a simple way to spin up a relational DB, throw a bunch of data in it (that's the easy part), but then have a ready-to-go CRUD app that takes care of the basics of user accounts and roles/permissions, data entry/editing/deleting (forms), tracking changes in order to undo things or audit changes, export records, do searches and filtering, customized exports, and forms.And then some kind of feature that lets me build the visual reports and summaries, like a custom dashboard sort of thing.
CRUD app in a box. Is there such a thing? I've been playing with JS frameworks like Vue and Meteor and many others, just as a way to build a template CRUD app I can reused for DB projects.
There are all internal projects, so they should all be accessible through a common interface too. In that sense, each CRUD app should be relatively portable.
