What Are You Watching Now
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
In the case of SW, I consider LFL the owners of that story now, not GL... so yes, you can do this. If GL didn't want his story to have a different 7-9, he shouldn't have sold it.
Doesn't matter, owners are not the writers. Canon is from the author. LIke it or not, that's what canon is. Anything since the acquisition, is just fan fiction by fans that bought the rights to the name.
oh brother - GL didn't write 90% of the stories outside of the movies.. not sure how much input he had with Timothy Zahn for the Thrawn Trilogy.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
In the case of SW, I consider LFL the owners of that story now, not GL... so yes, you can do this. If GL didn't want his story to have a different 7-9, he shouldn't have sold it.
Star Wars was a lot bigger than GL, and a lot better for his absence. There was a lot of energy poured into the EU to make it something amazing and coherent (after the first few years at least). It was a very crappy move to simply drop it.
I agree - LFL had a team of 2 people (I met them) who's job it was to make sure things stayed correctly coherent. For Disney to just toss that, ug.
That said, I can also understand that considering the age of the current actors, it might not have been desirable to make an existing story at the correct timeline.
Lots of great reasons for it, including that GL hated his own fans and was a raving lunatic. I'm totally behind the logic of changing things. But it means leaving SW canon behind.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
In the case of SW, I consider LFL the owners of that story now, not GL... so yes, you can do this. If GL didn't want his story to have a different 7-9, he shouldn't have sold it.
Doesn't matter, owners are not the writers. Canon is from the author. LIke it or not, that's what canon is. Anything since the acquisition, is just fan fiction by fans that bought the rights to the name.
oh brother - GL didn't write 90% of the stories outside of the movies.. not sure how much input he had with Timothy Zahn for the Thrawn Trilogy.
He had all the input he wanted, that much we know. He was in control and authorized the canon.
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What I was told at the time of the books releasing, is that they were the novelizations of GL's original story.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What I was told at the time of the books releasing, is that they were the novelizations of GL's original story.
Interesting - I heard (rumor of course) is that GL never wrote 7-9. In fact didn't write 1-3 until much later.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What I was told at the time of the books releasing, is that they were the novelizations of GL's original story.
Interesting - I heard (rumor of course) is that GL never wrote 7-9. In fact didn't write 1-3 until much later.
Hard to say for sure. When I was younger, I was led to believe that at some point he had written the entire story and 4-6 were broken out as the ones to make and 7-9 were saved in case they decided to make them, which they didn't and made the books instead. But that he had framed out the story was what I was always told what the case.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
In the case of SW, I consider LFL the owners of that story now, not GL... so yes, you can do this. If GL didn't want his story to have a different 7-9, he shouldn't have sold it.
Star Wars was a lot bigger than GL, and a lot better for his absence. There was a lot of energy poured into the EU to make it something amazing and coherent (after the first few years at least). It was a very crappy move to simply drop it.
I'm happy to discuss the potential that SW has improved without GL. But I can't agree that the canon can change after the fact. What we have in the current era is just a different universe based on the SW concept and character names.
I guess today is my unclear posting day. What I was trying to say is that the EU is better for not being GL's thing. That having people other than him writing improved it immeasurably (just look at the dialogue in Ep2). I was not comparing Star Wars pre Disney vs now.
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@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
In the case of SW, I consider LFL the owners of that story now, not GL... so yes, you can do this. If GL didn't want his story to have a different 7-9, he shouldn't have sold it.
Star Wars was a lot bigger than GL, and a lot better for his absence. There was a lot of energy poured into the EU to make it something amazing and coherent (after the first few years at least). It was a very crappy move to simply drop it.
I'm happy to discuss the potential that SW has improved without GL. But I can't agree that the canon can change after the fact. What we have in the current era is just a different universe based on the SW concept and character names.
I guess today is my unclear posting day. What I was trying to say is that the EU is better for not being GL's thing. That having people other than him writing improved it immeasurably (just look at the dialogue in Ep2). I was not comparing Star Wars pre Disney vs now.
I was agreeing. Even before Disney took over, having other writers helped.
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Overall I would've been willing to forgive (to a point) the abandonment of the EU if Ep7 had been good, but while the story telling was mediocre the science portion of science fiction was exceptionally implausible.
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@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
Overall I would've been willing to forgive (to a point) the abandonment of the EU if Ep7 had been good, but while the story telling was mediocre the science portion of science fiction was beyond implausible.
Right, the Thrawn "Heir to the Empire" was excellent, the Disney Ep 7 was... enough to make me willing to throw SW away and walk away. It made me literally not care about the universe any more. It absolutely ruined SW for me. but I have to cling to that it is jus fan fiction made by and for people that dislike actual SW and want a new product for a new generation. I should not let it take away from actual SW.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
Overall I would've been willing to forgive (to a point) the abandonment of the EU if Ep7 had been good, but while the story telling was mediocre the science portion of science fiction was beyond implausible.
Right, the Thrawn "Heir to the Empire" was excellent, the Disney Ep 7 was... enough to make me willing to throw SW away and walk away. It made me literally not care about the universe any more. It absolutely ruined SW for me. but I have to cling to that it is jus fan fiction made by and for people that dislike actual SW and want a new product for a new generation. I should not let it take away from actual SW.
There needs to be a Star Wars TV show that does to the Thrawn trilogy what was done with GoT.
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yes, those books had an actual Stardestroyer(Starkiller?) as the weapon; it blew up stars.
Luke went around kicking ass and teaching his niece and nephew.
At least that is what i remember, i was a young teen i think when i read them 20 some years ago. -
@momurda said in What Are You Watching Now:
yes, those books had an actual Stardestroyer(Starkiller?) as the weapon; it blew up stars.
Which books? The Thrawn Trilogy? There was nothing of the sort. Other EU books had various super weapons.
Luke went around kicking ass and teaching his niece and nephew.
This was not the Thawn trilogy either. They were newborn during this trilogy.
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@jaredbusch said in What Are You Watching Now:
@momurda said in What Are You Watching Now:
yes, those books had an actual Stardestroyer(Starkiller?) as the weapon; it blew up stars.
Which books? The Thrawn Trilogy? There was nothing of the sort. Other EU books had various super weapons.
Luke went around kicking ass and teaching his niece and nephew.
This was not the Thawn trilogy either. They were newborn during this trilogy.
Look at JB being all in the know!
He's right too. The twins were either born just before or during the Thrawn Trilogy.
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@scottalanmiller There was never any official acknowledgement that Zahn's Thrawn trilogy was the replacement for episodes 7,8, and 9. It was stated at conventions that because Lucas had committed to never making them, that this was the best we were going to get. Canon content for the what would later be called the Expanded Universe? Yes. Officially episodes 7, 8, and 9? No.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@jaredbusch said in What Are You Watching Now:
@momurda said in What Are You Watching Now:
yes, those books had an actual Stardestroyer(Starkiller?) as the weapon; it blew up stars.
Which books? The Thrawn Trilogy? There was nothing of the sort. Other EU books had various super weapons.
Luke went around kicking ass and teaching his niece and nephew.
This was not the Thawn trilogy either. They were newborn during this trilogy.
Look at JB being all in the know!
He's right too. The twins were either born just before or during the Thrawn Trilogy.
Leia was pregnant in the beginning of the first book when she was target for assassination.
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@jaredbusch said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@jaredbusch said in What Are You Watching Now:
@momurda said in What Are You Watching Now:
yes, those books had an actual Stardestroyer(Starkiller?) as the weapon; it blew up stars.
Which books? The Thrawn Trilogy? There was nothing of the sort. Other EU books had various super weapons.
Luke went around kicking ass and teaching his niece and nephew.
This was not the Thawn trilogy either. They were newborn during this trilogy.
Look at JB being all in the know!
He's right too. The twins were either born just before or during the Thrawn Trilogy.
Leia was pregnant in the beginning of the first book when she was target for assassination.
Aww that's right, when the nirgi (sp) discovered her heritage (SPOILER - daughter of Vader)
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What I was told at the time of the books releasing, is that they were the novelizations of GL's original story.
Whoever told you this was not correct.
Zahn has publicly stated at conventions that he was entirely responsible for the story and that he was only instructed that he was not allowed to use any character killed in the movies nor allowed to alter anything about the movies.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@jaredbusch said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@jaredbusch said in What Are You Watching Now:
@momurda said in What Are You Watching Now:
yes, those books had an actual Stardestroyer(Starkiller?) as the weapon; it blew up stars.
Which books? The Thrawn Trilogy? There was nothing of the sort. Other EU books had various super weapons.
Luke went around kicking ass and teaching his niece and nephew.
This was not the Thawn trilogy either. They were newborn during this trilogy.
Look at JB being all in the know!
He's right too. The twins were either born just before or during the Thrawn Trilogy.
Leia was pregnant in the beginning of the first book when she was target for assassination.
Aww that's right, when the nirgi (sp) discovered her heritage (SPOILER - daughter of Vader)
Correct. And I think there is an 'h' in their name someplace.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
That said, I can also understand that considering the age of the current actors, it might not have been desirable to make an existing story at the correct timeline.
See, I don't care about the original actors. They should have told the Thrawn story with new actors and let the originals make cameos or something.
