Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
On premium storage Virtual Server would still be 10x slow than bare metal 10 years ago.
Type 2 virtualization remains a dog today, you have Windows, which is slow itself, between the metal and the hypervisor. So two layers, instead of one, and each layer slower than the single one. So the effects, even today, are still pronounced.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@scottalanmiller That was right as my job changed and I didn't work directly on server projects. It just left a terrible taste in my mouse. I use Xen for everything in home lab and otherwise use hosted VPS.
Hyper-V and Xen have the same fundamental design. Neither is related to the Virtual Servers or VMware Servers of the past.
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@scottalanmiller well that's encouraging. Thats what I have picked up from reading.
What's the best way to get file storage into a new VM? Can it directly access live storage or is it still some kind of VHD file?
I will have the OS drive array run Hyper-V and storage 2 servers to stay under the licensing limit. Server A will be DC and a file share. Or perhaps A is the DC, B is the file server a C is the Exchange server.
Is it common practice to virtualize the file storage in a VHD file or just access that array directly from the guest OS?
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@magroover VHD has a 2TB limit where as VHDX has a 60TB(?) limit. Something like that. Just ran into that at home.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@scottalanmiller well that's encouraging. Thats what I have picked up from reading.
What's the best way to get file storage into a new VM? Can it directly access live storage or is it still some kind of VHD file?
I will have the OS drive array run Hyper-V and storage 2 servers to stay under the licensing limit. Server A will be DC and a file share. Or perhaps A is the DC, B is the file server a C is the Exchange server.
Is it common practice to virtualize the file storage in a VHD file or just access that array directly from the guest OS?
You could setup the DC to be a file server, generally you wouldn't want to.
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@DustinB3403 said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@scottalanmiller well that's encouraging. Thats what I have picked up from reading.
What's the best way to get file storage into a new VM? Can it directly access live storage or is it still some kind of VHD file?
I will have the OS drive array run Hyper-V and storage 2 servers to stay under the licensing limit. Server A will be DC and a file share. Or perhaps A is the DC, B is the file server a C is the Exchange server.
Is it common practice to virtualize the file storage in a VHD file or just access that array directly from the guest OS?
You could setup the DC to be a file server, generally you wouldn't want to.
100% this. I have about 4 DC's that are also file servers. It is beyond annoying.
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@DustinB3403 would be the first time I had to do that short of Small Business Server. Also the first time I would have just 1 DC. Then again; 20 users. This is pretty ridiculous but I guess it will give me something to do here. I cleared up all their other issues quickly and mostly sit here applying for other jobs. Ha!
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If I had my approach, I'd likely use a RedHat as the fileserver (or CentOS), and leave the Exchange services for just that. For the domain functions, use RH or CentOS, maybe Zentyal or some other flavor like that.
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@magroover Since you stated that you were directed, I assume there is no keeping Office 365? Because it is only $4/user/month for Exchange Online. If you are going to be purchasing a SPAM servicve for $1/user/month, that brings the difference to only $3/user/month.
To install Exchange, you will have to setup AD last I knew. So you will have to deal with a DC and Exchange Server.
You will need to buy Server 2016 Standard, Exchange Server 2016, 28 Server 2016 User CALS, and 28 Exchange 2016 User CALS.
That is going to add up fast.
Then you have to buy a backup solution.
Was the math shown to the business? Or was this some abstract technical discussion?
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@DustinB3403 I've been thinking about investing more time in using CentOS as a premise-based server. I am not whether there are more opportunities for sysadmin or for app development, which has been my more recent role. Managing the actual LOB apps used and customizing, doing reports.
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@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
Was the math shown to the business? Or was this some abstract technical discussion?
@JaredBusch I know this last bit was rhetorical.....
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@JaredBusch I had all of that firepower ready in our meeting yesterday. We have some gold old boys here that never wanted to be in "that cloud". They also wanted to clamp down on the use of Dropbox.
Office 365's backend has come a long way and from a compliance standpoint I can't really imagine using anything else i.e G Suite, because what else is left?
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@JaredBusch I had all of that firepower ready in our meeting yesterday. We have some gold old boys here that never wanted to be in "that cloud". They also wanted to clamp down on the use of Dropbox.
Office 365's backend has come a long way and from a compliance standpoint I can't really imagine using anything else i.e G Suite, because what else is left?
There are a lot of email supplier options, but few that have the same features of Exchange (or O365). This is one such item I'd really try and push back against.
If you're already hosted, you're in about as good of a position as you can be.
(This kind of reminds me of GitLab opting to bring services in house)
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
Currently we are running a Windows Server 2012 edition on a very basic Intel server. Basic mirror raid for the OS and separate mirror raid for file storate. Its just a Xeon 3.1GHz and 16GB RAM.
This is enough hardware, but barely. Leased? Ewww.
Backup your shit to 4TB USB drive or something.
Wipe the system.
Install Hyper-V Server 2016
Create a VM for the DC and a VM for Exchange.
Put your shares on the DC.
Setup Exchange.
Test.
Migrate.
I would guesstimate this project at 100 hours, because setting up Exchange sucks.
So on top of the software costs from my prior post, you have $10,000 in labor if you bill at $100/hour. I have no idea what your cost is to the company, hint it is more than your salary, but you get the idea.
Send the owner an invoice for the software and labor.
Also add a line that you will have to migrate everything in 2 years when the server lease expires.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
Is it common practice to virtualize the file storage in a VHD file or just access that array directly from the guest OS?
Always VHD.
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@JaredBusch Im actually an employee here, unfortunately. Archaic thinking. Unbreakable mentality about the cloud.
When I started here they said "Thats our mail server" After lunch I had them around a table saying "No it isn't" And there was a list of other lies the previous IT guy told while paying the bill on his own credit card. I imagine to avoid meetings that end with ridiculous mandates. Maybe $200/month bill to make your $80k/year job easier. IDK. Bad thinking on both sides there.
It's their company and I am their employee. I tell them what they should do, but I do what I am told. At least I will log some overtime.
I did spend the first couple months straightening out database issues and making changes to applications they previously had developed with a contractor. So I feel like some of my time was productive here. And its paying the bills for now.
I think its part fear of the cloud and part CAPEX mentality. I have no idea why they went with a lease. They have the cash.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@JaredBusch Im actually an employee here, unfortunately. Archaic thinking. Unbreakable mentality about the cloud.
I am just saying before wasting a month. send them an invoice of what it will actually cost. And if you are making $80k (what you noted for the previous admin) then your cost to the company is certainly close to $100/hour.
Put the numbers in black and white and flat ask them if they wish to waste this money. if they say yes, then do it.
Side note: since email is inherently something that goes over an outside network to send and receive from third parties, how is it ever not at least sometimes cloud?
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@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
Side note: since email is inherently something that goes over an outside network to send and receive from third parties, how is it ever not at least sometimes cloud?
This can't be overstated.
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@JaredBusch I totally agree. Email is inherently and insecurely passed through the internet. After the last meeting I had I can't imagine giving it another go. I was pretty explicit that there were going to be 2 to 3 weeks of long hours, overtime, etc. "Lets get er done" was pretty much the owner's response.
It had me pretty upset yesterday but I got over it now. It was a 3 hour meeting. In the end I will likely be praised for finally getting things to the place they THOUGHT they were.
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For reference:
$80k = $38.33 / hour
1.5 times that for average employee cost = $57.50 / hour
Then you have your portion of the building and utilities, etc.
So even if you calculate at $60 / hour, a 100 hour project will cost them $6,000 in labor.Licensing is $3,560
$700 Exchange 2016
$700 Server 2016 Standard
$1,500 for 28 x Exchange User CALS
$660 for 6x 5 packs of Server 2016 User CALSPlus whatever your backup solution will cost
Plus monthly Server updates and maintenance
Plus SPAM filter costs.All that versus $1,344 / year for Office 365 Exchange Online Plan 1.
Let's take that less $12 / year by 28 users is $336 / year for SPAM filtering.
So Office 365 is only $1,008 per year by comparison.
Take the above $9,650 (which is not all costs) divided by $1,008 per year in comparative Office 365 costs brings us to 9.48 years before you see savings by bringing this in house.
And that 9.5 years is low because some costs are not known (backup & maintenance).
Can they expect to still be running this software in 9.5 years?
