Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN
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@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
I would be concerned with the availability of the DNS Service. . . But why not just install a content filter at the edge and be done with it?
And manage it like anything else.
Because we never improve our methods if we always do what we've done before.
A product like a USG is brilliant but it has no grunt for content filtering. So we could add another edge device and increase the cost/complexity of a simple setup but why do we need to do that?
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@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
I would be concerned with the availability of the DNS Service. . . But why not just install a content filter at the edge and be done with it?
And manage it like anything else.
Because we never improve our methods if we always do what we've done before.
I suppose. . . but look at it from this thought.
If you have a central content filter, which can be managed (like avast) you get the same functionality of an edge device, without the hardware to manage.
Of course if anything slips through, you also have limited capability to point a finger at the exact problem.
Something like this could work. . . of course you'd probably hit issues with VPN connections etc. . . Say from business to business(client side corporate VPNs)
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But I can't install Avast onto Ipads and various other gadgets, so what is my solution?
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@DustinB3403 said
Something like this could work. . . of course you'd probably hit issues with VPN connections etc. . . Say from business to business(client side corporate VPNs)
How so?
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@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
But I can't install Avast onto Ipads and various other gadgets, so what is my solution?
Well you'd have to have a way to have an internal dns point to an external content filter / dns.
So DC1 points to CF1(with ingrain content filtering)
From the content filter you'd have to apply rules for what to allow and deny. It's still a edge device, just not on your edge.
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@DustinB3403 said
From the content filter you'd have to apply rules for what to allow and deny. It's still a edge device, just not on your edge.
But Avast is an endpoint client software? How is it an edge device?
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@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said
Something like this could work. . . of course you'd probably hit issues with VPN connections etc. . . Say from business to business(client side corporate VPNs)
How so?
So for example, we get client equipment to use for business needs. But to be useful it needs to connect to our clients VPN.
If that vpn address is blacklisted on the CF, you'd never connect.You'd have to be able to make address exclusions for the services you want.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said
From the content filter you'd have to apply rules for what to allow and deny. It's still a edge device, just not on your edge.
But Avast is an endpoint client software? How is it an edge device?
I was just using Avast as a very generic "we don't run the software in house solution" Don't use it literally.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
Is there anything technically dumb I'm missing here?
DNSSEC may be a problem
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@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
Content filtering, for good or bad reasons, people want it.
Toying this as an idea. You have your third party DNS filtering service which blocks the non productive or evil websites. You block port 53 on the outbound UNLESS it resolves to your DNS filtering service.
Cheap to implement, no intercepting of HTTPS traffic needed and it should be fast as a DNS query takes no time.
The internal DNS for servers and AD remains unchanged and you set the DNS resolver to the filtering service.
Is there anything technically dumb I'm missing here?
Unless I'm missing something that makes this special, isn't this the standard way of handling this?
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@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
I would be concerned with the availability of the DNS Service. . . But why not just install a content filter at the edge and be done with it?
And manage it like anything else.
Content filters are stupid and do not honestly work worth a shit.
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@scottalanmiller said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
Content filtering, for good or bad reasons, people want it.
Toying this as an idea. You have your third party DNS filtering service which blocks the non productive or evil websites. You block port 53 on the outbound UNLESS it resolves to your DNS filtering service.
Cheap to implement, no intercepting of HTTPS traffic needed and it should be fast as a DNS query takes no time.
The internal DNS for servers and AD remains unchanged and you set the DNS resolver to the filtering service.
Is there anything technically dumb I'm missing here?
Unless I'm missing something that makes this special, isn't this the standard way of handling this?
It is the standard method handling it via DNS, yes. The problem is that most people are still stuck in the mindset that they need to use proxies.
The problem with proxies is encryption. As the web slowly encrypts itself, these mitm proxies fail to work as advertised.
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@JaredBusch said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
I would be concerned with the availability of the DNS Service. . . But why not just install a content filter at the edge and be done with it?
And manage it like anything else.
Content filters are stupid and do not honestly work worht a shit.
I don't completely disagree, most need way to much fine tuning and constant adjustment. But what other solution would you recommend for @Breffni-Potter ?
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@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@JaredBusch said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
I would be concerned with the availability of the DNS Service. . . But why not just install a content filter at the edge and be done with it?
And manage it like anything else.
Content filters are stupid and do not honestly work worht a shit.
I don't completely disagree, most need way to much fine tuning and constant adjustment. But what other solution would you recommend for @Breffni-Potter ?
None. he has the right solution. DNS level.
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@JaredBusch said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@JaredBusch said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
I would be concerned with the availability of the DNS Service. . . But why not just install a content filter at the edge and be done with it?
And manage it like anything else.
Content filters are stupid and do not honestly work worht a shit.
I don't completely disagree, most need way to much fine tuning and constant adjustment. But what other solution would you recommend for @Breffni-Potter ?
None. he has the right solution. DNS level.
He simply wants to apply content filtering at an external DNS provider.
@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
Toying this as an idea. You have your third party DNS filtering service which blocks the non productive or evil websites. You block port 53 on the outbound UNLESS it resolves to your DNS filtering service.
I don't see how this is any better than an actual content filter. DNS Denial would simply stop the traffic from hitting the destination.
Maybe I need to see it in practice, but I just don't see how well it would work. . .
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@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@JaredBusch said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@JaredBusch said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
I would be concerned with the availability of the DNS Service. . . But why not just install a content filter at the edge and be done with it?
And manage it like anything else.
Content filters are stupid and do not honestly work worht a shit.
I don't completely disagree, most need way to much fine tuning and constant adjustment. But what other solution would you recommend for @Breffni-Potter ?
None. he has the right solution. DNS level.
He simply wants to apply content filtering at an external DNS provider.
@Breffni-Potter said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
Toying this as an idea. You have your third party DNS filtering service which blocks the non productive or evil websites. You block port 53 on the outbound UNLESS it resolves to your DNS filtering service.
I don't see how this is any better than an actual content filter. DNS Denial would simply stop the traffic from hitting the destination.
Maybe I need to see it in practice, but I just don't see how well it would work. . .
Umm, you have a clear misunderstanding for how DNS filtering works.
- User requests porn.com
- System looks at internal DNS cache and finds no answer.
- System calls to DNS server 1 and say hey man I need some porn.com
- DNS server 1 looks at its DNS cache and finds no answer.
- DNS server 1 looks at its forward lookup source of MyFilteredDNS.com
- (maybe I should buy that and start a service)
- MyFilteredDNS checks its rules and sends back newp not gonna get it in the form of an IP address that contains your blocked notice.
- DNS Server 1 gets the IP back and passes it back to System
- System gets the IP and sends the browser on its way to the bitch you be denied page..
Compared to a content filter, that reads http header info and sometimes even page content. Huge difference in functionality.
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@JaredBusch thanks for the explanation, it helps to understand it.
I am aware that content filtering literally checks the content and even has whitelist / blacklist for sites to allow/block.
With DNS Filtering wouldn't this essentially be the same thing, just without the content checking? just a DNS lookup to determine if that dns entry is allowed or not and proceed from there?
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@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@JaredBusch thanks for the explanation, it helps to understand it.
I am aware that content filtering literally checks the content and even has whitelist / blacklist for sites to allow/block.
With DNS Filtering wouldn't this essentially be the same thing, just without the content checking? just a DNS lookup to determine if that dns entry is allowed or not and proceed from there?
Sort of, but remember DNS is not required. So there are trivial bypasses to DNS filtering in many cases.
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@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@JaredBusch thanks for the explanation, it helps to understand it.
I am aware that content filtering literally checks the content and even has whitelist / blacklist for sites to allow/block.
With DNS Filtering wouldn't this essentially be the same thing, just without the content checking? just a DNS lookup to determine if that dns entry is allowed or not and proceed from there?
The end result is the same, a block page alert, but the task to get there is way different.
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@scottalanmiller said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@DustinB3403 said in Sanity check - DNS Filtering on WAN:
@JaredBusch thanks for the explanation, it helps to understand it.
I am aware that content filtering literally checks the content and even has whitelist / blacklist for sites to allow/block.
With DNS Filtering wouldn't this essentially be the same thing, just without the content checking? just a DNS lookup to determine if that dns entry is allowed or not and proceed from there?
Sort of, but remember DNS is not required. So these are trivial to bypasses DNS filtering in many cases.
Corrected?
