Solved Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Then it becomes even more important to not only post a link to the other thread, but also to spell out what they did, what best practice they should have followed so future searchers can find the thread useful.
I think that that normally is done or is overwhelmingly obvious. If not, definitely ask. Normally it tends to be RAID 5 winchesters, IPOD, etc.
I've had replies to brand new topics, (and I wont go digging for the emails) that have been as quickly bashed for assuming it was an IPOD in design with as innocent a question of: "Can you describe your setup a bit more, as this sounds like it might be an IPOD?"
I tend to try and be kind, but I don't coat it with butter and sugar.
In a case like that, if in question, you could leave out the IPOD bit. Start with the assumption that it is not, and only assume that it is when it turns out to be.
Is that question abusive in someway? To even ask it seems like a perfectly valid question with the way the OP was posted.
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@DustinB3403 Honestly, it was rude and unfriendly. I see no issues with that deletion.
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@Jstear said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 Honestly, it was rude and unfriendly. I see no issues with that deletion.
Rude and unfriendly, sure I agree, but the other 4 pages of replies telling the OP that he was completely out of the realm of reason with the discussion needed to be called out for it.
Look at the other post there, even my own. I was perfectly calm and collected. It's when the topic devolved into "I need to show my superiors because they don't believe what anyone else says"
That the topic gets into the "OK lets be blunt here "YOU"RE an ass, and take a step back and think about it rationally"
No offense meant to you @Jstear.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Then it becomes even more important to not only post a link to the other thread, but also to spell out what they did, what best practice they should have followed so future searchers can find the thread useful.
I think that that normally is done or is overwhelmingly obvious. If not, definitely ask. Normally it tends to be RAID 5 winchesters, IPOD, etc.
I've had replies to brand new topics, (and I wont go digging for the emails) that have been as quickly bashed for assuming it was an IPOD in design with as innocent a question of: "Can you describe your setup a bit more, as this sounds like it might be an IPOD?"
I tend to try and be kind, but I don't coat it with butter and sugar.
In a case like that, if in question, you could leave out the IPOD bit. Start with the assumption that it is not, and only assume that it is when it turns out to be.
Is that question abusive in someway? To even ask it seems like a perfectly valid question with the way the OP was posted.
It's suggestive. It says that it "sounds like" something very bad. No need for that. You need to know the architecture either way? Leave it out. You get the same clarification without any way for someone to complain. Sure, you don't SAY that it is an IPOD, but you say that it sounds like one. It's just unnecessary but puts people on the defensive.
Try this technique... always assume that the OP is correct. Give the benefit of the doubt. That's makes you "never wrong." Always clarify when needed, but just assume that they are not doing something foolish. That way, if they do something smart and you didn't know, you gave them credit for it. If they did something foolish, it isn't your fault in any way either way.
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To take one of my grandmother's famous phrases and apply it here: IT's not what you say but how you say it.
I do not keep a tight standard on all of you here for moderation, which you all know. You are all adults. I tend to take the suck it up buttercup philosophy ( in other words if you can't deal with someone being mean.....). Though honestly that isn't always the best course.
You guys all do tend to be a bit abrasive at times when you are sure you a smarter than someone else.... It's a IT trait (or Aspie trait in the case of some of you).
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@DustinB3403 I can't say I disagree, it was a bad topic as a whole, touchy subject.
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@Minion-Queen said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
I do not keep a tight standard on all of you here for moderation, which you all know. You are all adults. I tend to take the suck it up buttercup philosophy ( in other words if you can't deal with someone being mean.....). Though honestly that isn't always the best course.
I agree but think that this requires the buttercup to know that the conversation is happening. Being blunt to their face is different than being blunt in a different community that they don't know is discussing it.
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Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
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@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
that's a tough balance. Hopefully it is only predatory to those those that refuse help or refuse to do anything themselves. Newbies looking for real help and advice and to learn from others hopefully find it exceptionally welcoming. We don't get many of either directly, though.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
Yes, I think that likely that that will help. Also, be sure to post in the thread that they have been invited. This lets them know that there is something for them to discuss and it lets us know that they might be popping in.
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@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
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@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
At least the quiz answers are not a person. It's not an attack, just frustration.
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@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
How many of us came over from SpiceWorks?
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Some people make mistakes unknowingly, some foresee everything crumbling down and not take any action until it collapsed. As for OP... I would call him an idiot for letting it happens based on the information I have on him...which is nothing, zero, nada. I don't know what kind of situation he is in and I cannot fully call him out for what had happened. But that doesn't changed the fact that it already happened.
He might be short on budget? He might be running on VMWare without proper approval from management or higher ups? I could think of couple reasons as to why he would not/could not get a license for his infrastructure. If it's REALLY important and he neglect it then idiot seem fitting. Again.. I don't know the story behind it.
I feels calling someone dense without reason is out of line, but it's not out of context.
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
I don't feel like that. I am new to System Admin with little to no experience prior. That was a year ago. I spent 60-70hours a week the first couple months to get me on track and SAM, SW, and Mangolassi-an has been a great help so far. Yes, I made mistakes. Yes, I almost implement IPOD on my infrastructure. But I learned. I grow. All thanks to you guys here (and SW).
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@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
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@LAH3385 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
He might be short on budget? He might be running on VMWare without proper approval from management or higher ups? I could think of couple reasons as to why he would not/could not get a license for his infrastructure. If it's REALLY important and he neglect it then idiot seem fitting. Again.. I don't know the story behind it.
This is really for the other thread, but he or someone opted not to run the free version, hence the problem. No one thought that he was 'dense' as the term was for running free, but for not bothering to run free and running the "time out" evaluation instead.
So if he didn't get approval or didn't have budget would not be an issue here.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
That's still a problem for me. Wrote my above post 3 times because I need to follow the discussion, translate, adapt the post... rinse and repeat. Final post was way shorter than initially planned. Like 1/10th of the length.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I posted a simple question about SSL certs, and expecting 5-6 replies, but I got A LOT more than I bargain for. In the end I learn of other services, certbot, that answer my question in a different way.
EDIT: let's try not to sidetrack from original topic here. Fastpace forum discussion can be a whole thread by itself.
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@LAH3385 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
I don't feel like that. I am new to System Admin with little to no experience prior. That was a year ago. I spent 60-70hours a week the first couple months to get me on track and SAM, SW, and Mangolassi-an has been a great help so far. Yes, I made mistakes. Yes, I almost implement IPOD on my infrastructure. But I learned. I grow. All thanks to you guys here (and SW).
I think, after many years in multiple places, that ML generally is more blunt but less predatory than the alternative. But we have to carefully remember and consciously keep it that way. It's very easy to get frustrated and let it go down hill.
By keeping the blunt, though, we also maintain that it is not socially acceptable to not listen. On some other sites, not listening is seen as "cool" or something. Much like a culture of celebrating ignorance. If we start thinking of it being "cool and individualistic" to not listen to industry experience then it becomes acceptable to do reckless things.
