Hours I work/PTO
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@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But in the bigger cities, the poor live nearer to the really bad parts of town and walking to a library could be hazardous, and definitely not a close walk.
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there? A few years ago my wife was laid off from work. We sold almost everything we had to move to FL for work. As stated previously on this site, if you want money, sometimes you have to be willing to move.
Giving up everything you have and know to go some place else to try to find work is beyond what I would call frightening. Is it needed sometimes, yes.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
I don't think that that is true. Library buildings are very expensive. The cost of running a line is relatively low (you can't use fake inflated current monopoly prices as a reference.) Running a line is cheap compared to building AND STAFFING a building.
There is no way. The cost of contractors running lines is very high. The cost of fiber is high. You can't use fake inflated prices for buildings either. It doesn't have to be a fancy building. The library in the town where I grew up had wood panel walls and bad carpet.
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@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
. As stated previously on this site, if you want money, sometimes you have to be willing to move.
We aren't talking about white collar professionals wanting to advance their careers. We are talking about kids who might never get the needed access to be viable in the economy.
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@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But in the bigger cities, the poor live nearer to the really bad parts of town and walking to a library could be hazardous, and definitely not a close walk.
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there? A few years ago my wife was laid off from work. We sold almost everything we had to move to FL for work. As stated previously on this site, if you want money, sometimes you have to be willing to move.
Giving up everything you have and know to go some place else to try to find work is beyond what I would call frightening. Is it needed sometimes, yes.
How would you know where to move? What if you didn't have the Internet to look for a home, know where jobs were, find a job, etc.?
And if you have nothing to sell, how would you raise the money to move?
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@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
How did you know where to move?
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Speaking of running those lines - it's already required by the federal government that power and phone lines be made available in most of those places, so dial-up is an option.
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@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
Library's have free internet. Most restaurants have free wifi.
The Library's is an OK start, but they are only available when the Library is open. This can be very limiting.
And only for people who live near one. Most poor people do not.
Huh? Most poorer demographics are inner city, which is where libraries are.
And pretty much every local government provides libraries.
Maybe where you are from. Not in the north. Certainly almost nowhere near me.
Of the ones that were around, most were one room deals that have since shut down. No way they would exist or have Internet today.
Well I live in the North and they're here. Even in small towns like the one I grew up in. A town of about 4,000 people.
I grew up in a village of 800, still had a library and internet.
We STILL don't have a gas station, restaurant or store of any kind. Having a library would be weird.
In NY more people live in the open area between villages than in them. The poorest are in the open spaces.
And for the cost of one library you could have just provided Internet to their homes!
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
Long distance microwave, just like anywhere else rural. We cut down on cost for rural customers substantially. It's also not like the high satellite costs. One dish can service a village (moderate speeds) for 5-10 years before we replace it and the dish costs 5-10k... At $1000/year or less at our cost, that's not bad at all.
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@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
There is no way. The cost of contractors running lines is very high. The cost of fiber is high. You can't use fake inflated prices for buildings either. It doesn't have to be a fancy building. The library in the town where I grew up had wood panel walls and bad carpet.
But the whole point was that we wouldn't have contractors anymore. And fiber is not high. The cost of running lines would be very low. That's part of the objective... lower the cost for everyone so that everyone wins. No one loses.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Speaking of running those lines - it's already required by the federal government that power and phone lines be made available in most of those places, so dial-up is an option.
Or Internet over Power!!
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@BBigford said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
Library's have free internet. Most restaurants have free wifi.
The Library's is an OK start, but they are only available when the Library is open. This can be very limiting.
And only for people who live near one. Most poor people do not.
Huh? Most poorer demographics are inner city, which is where libraries are.
And pretty much every local government provides libraries.
Maybe where you are from. Not in the north. Certainly almost nowhere near me.
Of the ones that were around, most were one room deals that have since shut down. No way they would exist or have Internet today.
Well I live in the North and they're here. Even in small towns like the one I grew up in. A town of about 4,000 people.
I grew up in a village of 800, still had a library and internet.
We STILL don't have a gas station, restaurant or store of any kind. Having a library would be weird.
In NY more people live in the open area between villages than in them. The poorest are in the open spaces.
And for the cost of one library you could have just provided Internet to their homes!
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
Long distance microwave, just like anywhere else rural. We cut down on cost for rural customers substantially. It's also not like the high satellite costs. One dish can service a village (moderate speeds) for 5-10 years before we replace it and the dish costs 5-10k... At $1000/year or less at our cost, that's not bad at all.
Most rural municipalities already have a radio tower for emergency system communications. This would be fairly simple to tack on top of.
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@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
But as Scott asked.. how did you know where to go? did you already have a job there waiting for you? Where did you stay?
There are some people who, if they sold everything they had wouldn't have more than probably $2-400 to their name.
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@BBigford said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
Library's have free internet. Most restaurants have free wifi.
The Library's is an OK start, but they are only available when the Library is open. This can be very limiting.
And only for people who live near one. Most poor people do not.
Huh? Most poorer demographics are inner city, which is where libraries are.
And pretty much every local government provides libraries.
Maybe where you are from. Not in the north. Certainly almost nowhere near me.
Of the ones that were around, most were one room deals that have since shut down. No way they would exist or have Internet today.
Well I live in the North and they're here. Even in small towns like the one I grew up in. A town of about 4,000 people.
I grew up in a village of 800, still had a library and internet.
We STILL don't have a gas station, restaurant or store of any kind. Having a library would be weird.
In NY more people live in the open area between villages than in them. The poorest are in the open spaces.
And for the cost of one library you could have just provided Internet to their homes!
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
Long distance microwave, just like anywhere else rural. We cut down on cost for rural customers substantially. It's also not like the high satellite costs. One dish can service a village (moderate speeds) for 5-10 years before we replace it and the dish costs 5-10k... At $1000/year or less at our cost, that's not bad at all.
Yeah, outside of mountainous regions, WISPs can cover a LOT of ground when you are talking about the free infrastructure.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
But as Scott asked.. how did you know where to go? did you already have a job there waiting for you? Where did you stay?
There are some people who, if they sold everything they had wouldn't have more than probably $2-400 to their name.
Yeah... people who rent in the country. Often no car, no house, fear a deposit loss when they leave. I grew up with a lot of friends who could not have moved.
If you don't have kids, it's "easy". You can literally start walking.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
But as Scott asked.. how did you know where to go? did you already have a job there waiting for you? Where did you stay?
There are some people who, if they sold everything they had wouldn't have more than probably $2-400 to their name.
Then how are they living now? If they only have $2 in assets then they wouldn't be able to live anywhere.
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@coliver said in Hours I work/PTO:
@BBigford said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
Library's have free internet. Most restaurants have free wifi.
The Library's is an OK start, but they are only available when the Library is open. This can be very limiting.
And only for people who live near one. Most poor people do not.
Huh? Most poorer demographics are inner city, which is where libraries are.
And pretty much every local government provides libraries.
Maybe where you are from. Not in the north. Certainly almost nowhere near me.
Of the ones that were around, most were one room deals that have since shut down. No way they would exist or have Internet today.
Well I live in the North and they're here. Even in small towns like the one I grew up in. A town of about 4,000 people.
I grew up in a village of 800, still had a library and internet.
We STILL don't have a gas station, restaurant or store of any kind. Having a library would be weird.
In NY more people live in the open area between villages than in them. The poorest are in the open spaces.
And for the cost of one library you could have just provided Internet to their homes!
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
Long distance microwave, just like anywhere else rural. We cut down on cost for rural customers substantially. It's also not like the high satellite costs. One dish can service a village (moderate speeds) for 5-10 years before we replace it and the dish costs 5-10k... At $1000/year or less at our cost, that's not bad at all.
Most rural municipalities already have a radio tower for emergency system communications. This would be fairly simple to tack on top of.
That's a good point. I was just talking about a fresh install. Even if we didn't have anyone sign up it would cost us $83/month. If we charged $1 for each resident to have Internet, we would only need to sign up 83 people to break even. Of course there's things I'm missing like the cost of the metal structure to hold the dish, and engineering labor over that many people. But the simple break down just shows a pretty darn good margin to service a rural village at a very affordable rate for them.
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@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
But as Scott asked.. how did you know where to go? did you already have a job there waiting for you? Where did you stay?
There are some people who, if they sold everything they had wouldn't have more than probably $2-400 to their name.
Then how are they living now? If they only have $2 in assets then they wouldn't be able to live anywhere.
Government subsidies, that can cover rent and most food. Otherwise they live off the land.
I knew a family that did pretty much that in my friend's old farmhouse. They farmed a fairly larger garden, did buy groceries, but had very little actual income.
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Here is an example in the real world. I met a couple from Paris, Texas on the side of the road. They had family (sister) in Rome, NY (yes, Paris and Rome, I kid you not) and they had sent their daughter to live with them years before because they were so poor that they could not take care of her.
They decided to sell everything that they had (after dealing with another sister's health issues) to go live with family in NY and try to start over and be with their daughter. After selling everything, they had one backpack each with just clothes, tooth brush, etc. And they started hitchiking from TX to NY.
They were down to $5 by the time that I picked them up. $5... and 1,400 miles to their place to stay. They had no way to charge their phone, no idea where NY was, didn't know how to read a map to figure out how far away it was. Their TX education left them with zero idea of what the US looked like as far as scale. They thought NY was closer than Memphis... and no idea how far north it was.
They had no way to work, shower, get food, nothing. And that was after selling everything and starting walking as adults.
That's poor, and these were real people looking for a job somewhere. Had I not picked them up, I'm guessing they'd be dead. They were on the wrong road for where they thought they were going and thought that they could make it in a few short hitchiking rides. That I was driving directly from where they were, to NY and my FIL works in downtown Rome was beyond coincidental and I was able to drive them all of the way home. The chances were astronomically small.
That's what poverty in rural America looks like.
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@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
But as Scott asked.. how did you know where to go? did you already have a job there waiting for you? Where did you stay?
There are some people who, if they sold everything they had wouldn't have more than probably $2-400 to their name.
Then how are they living now? If they only have $2 in assets then they wouldn't be able to live anywhere.
Government subsidies, that can cover rent and most food. Otherwise they live off the land.
I knew a family that did pretty much that in my friend's old farmhouse. They farmed a fairly larger garden, did buy groceries, but had very little actual income.
I know people locally who are lucky to have power most days. It's not unusual for them to be without it for extended periods of time. Most of their food is from a small garden or what they can get hunting.
