Linux skills are hard to find
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Why would you think that?
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I've noticed and wondered the same thing. I've also seen a lot of cases where the people they get to support the Linux systems just do it incorrectly.
There are very few Linux jobs in our area, and the ones that do come up they want some ridiculous requirements (like also having 5-7 years Windows Admin experience and using applications no one has ever heard of) and a lot are only 6 month contracts.
Just found a job posting with these two lines of requirements.
Minimum of five years experience in System Administration of Linux 5x,6x, or 7x required
Under Major Duties:
Must have Red Hat 5, 6
First off, you can't have 5 years experience in RHEL 7 (I'm assuming they mean RHEL because there is no "Linux 7"), you can barely have 5 years experience in RHEL 6. Also, do they really mean Red Hat 5 and 6 or do they mean RHEL 5 and 6?
I think some of it might have to do with requiring certs. Literally every job posting I've seen has required something like a CS degree or some other degree that has nothing to do with IT work (like engineering). No one teaches it in college, so it's either learn it by doing it yourself, or get lucky and have real job experience with it.
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@Dashrender trying to hire Linux is hard. The number of people with the skills is small and anyone who has them is already employed. So the market of available people is tiny.
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@johnhooks that's just how general bad IT hiring works. Not unique to Linux.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender trying to hire Linux is hard. The number of people with the skills is small and anyone who has them is already employed. So the market of available people is tiny.
We have the opposite problem. Linux people who have been in multi-tenant environments are a dime a dozen. Windows people worth a damn have been hard to find.
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Have you tried the man pages? </zing>
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender trying to hire Linux is hard. The number of people with the skills is small and anyone who has them is already employed. So the market of available people is tiny.
My question - why would you think that - was in regard to Jason's assumption that more people would like Linux - why would he think that?
I agree with you Scott, There are not that many linux people out there and even fewer Linux admins.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks that's just how general bad IT hiring works. Not unique to Linux.
I'd like to know where the non bad IT hiring is. I'm not in the league you were mention the other day, So being hunted is not a problem I deal with. This leaves me to looking through other more normal/traditional avenues. Like John, all the listings I see are very similar to his - requiring degrees, long work history, etc.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks that's just how general bad IT hiring works. Not unique to Linux.
I'd like to know where the non bad IT hiring is. I'm not in the league you were mention the other day, So being hunted is not a problem I deal with. This leaves me to looking through other more normal/traditional avenues. Like John, all the listings I see are very similar to his - requiring degrees, long work history, etc.
Hire a headhunter/recruiter to work for you.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks that's just how general bad IT hiring works. Not unique to Linux.
I'd like to know where the non bad IT hiring is. I'm not in the league you were mention the other day, So being hunted is not a problem I deal with. This leaves me to looking through other more normal/traditional avenues. Like John, all the listings I see are very similar to his - requiring degrees, long work history, etc.
Cold calling and networking helps too if you can market yourself. That's how I got my current job. Heck many large companies even list on their employment page to contact them if you have a unique or interesting idea for a job.
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@PSX_Defector said:
We have the opposite problem. Linux people who have been in multi-tenant environments are a dime a dozen. Windows people worth a damn have been hard to find.
I agree. Linux people who know large scale management are far, far more common than Windows ones. But you can normally leverage Linux people for Windows work in most cases. I've rarely seen a Linux shop that can't run Windows as well as the Windows team. It happens, but it isn't common. The thing is that most places are "happy" to make due with not very good Windows Server Admins because there are just so many available.
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@Dashrender said:
My question - why would you think that - was in regard to Jason's assumption that more people would like Linux - why would he think that?
Ah, they would like it because it is easier to learn, the knowledge lasts longer (Linux takes less retraining than Windows does as it changes more slowly), it is more rewarding and less work and it pays far more. Better pay, less work, typically more rewarding, easier to do remotely.... what's not to love from a job and career perspective?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks that's just how general bad IT hiring works. Not unique to Linux.
I'd like to know where the non bad IT hiring is. I'm not in the league you were mention the other day, So being hunted is not a problem I deal with. This leaves me to looking through other more normal/traditional avenues. Like John, all the listings I see are very similar to his - requiring degrees, long work history, etc.
It's out there, but I don't think that good IT does much advertising of jobs. This isn't because it's a bad idea, it's because the practice has gotten so bad as to be worthless. The way that IT workers and IT jobs are matching up in the majority of the industry is so horrible that it is killing both sides.
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@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks that's just how general bad IT hiring works. Not unique to Linux.
I'd like to know where the non bad IT hiring is. I'm not in the league you were mention the other day, So being hunted is not a problem I deal with. This leaves me to looking through other more normal/traditional avenues. Like John, all the listings I see are very similar to his - requiring degrees, long work history, etc.
Hire a headhunter/recruiter to work for you.
this is what I do. My headhunters are awesome.
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@Jason said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks that's just how general bad IT hiring works. Not unique to Linux.
I'd like to know where the non bad IT hiring is. I'm not in the league you were mention the other day, So being hunted is not a problem I deal with. This leaves me to looking through other more normal/traditional avenues. Like John, all the listings I see are very similar to his - requiring degrees, long work history, etc.
Cold calling and networking helps too if you can market yourself. That's how I got my current job. Heck many large companies even list on their employment page to contact them if you have a unique or interesting idea for a job.
This is very true. For example, I was interesting in working for Ferrero (the Nutella and Kinder people) and so reached out to them directly. That's a tough one because I was interesting in their CIO role in Italy, but that's how you make contact, you reach out to them. Good shops aren't constantly hiring (at least not as a percentage) and their internal staff is always bringing people in because they are raving about how awesome it is to work there. Really good places, outside of some that are just massive like Microsoft or Facebook, just don't need to advertise as people are always submitting and getting in through back channels. Even in finance where they hire a huge percentage of the IT field, they often hire from word of mouth.
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Even small places that have a good reputation and are good places to work tend not to advertise. I know that NTG basically never advertises positions. I'm sure that @Bundy-Associates is the same way. There are a few factors that make good shops rarely advertise:
- They hire much more slowly because people are not quitting all of the time. People tend to stay a long time or even until retirement.
- They have applications coming in without requesting them and need to work through those before looking for more.
- They have hiring supply chains that already exist that are more effective.
- They train internally so they may hire into one position and move people into others rather than hiring from the outside for each new tech or task.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux skills are hard to find:
@PSX_Defector said:
We have the opposite problem. Linux people who have been in multi-tenant environments are a dime a dozen. Windows people worth a damn have been hard to find.
I agree. Linux people who know large scale management are far, far more common than Windows ones. But you can normally leverage Linux people for Windows work in most cases.
No, because Linux people are assholes and bitch/whine/complain if they have to do anything related to Microsoft at all.
Take for example log reviews. Many of our Linux people cannot comprehend not using grep. Or even something as simple as disk cleanup. The C:\ drive is almost full, let's try nothing! Many don't even know what C:$Recyclin.Bin is, let alone empty it.
I can do lots of things in both types of environments, but that's because I'm old and have seen it all. I stick with Microsoft because its more lucrative, being that people expect if you know Windows then you know SQL, Sharepoint, Exchange, and XBox. Opens more doors for me.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux skills are hard to find:
@Dashrender said:
My question - why would you think that - was in regard to Jason's assumption that more people would like Linux - why would he think that?
Ah, they would like it because it is easier to learn, the knowledge lasts longer (Linux takes less retraining than Windows does as it changes more slowly)
Yeah, Windows is so fast on how it does things. Never mind the same driver method has been used since Windows 98. Or that the same command line utilities still work from NT 3.51. Or that Explorer hasn't changed since NT 4.0.
Oh, I know, SQL Server. That certainly changes every revision. Oh wait, the only thing introduced recently is AAG. Same ol' SQL Server Management Studio from 2003. Same old database stuff since 6.5. Everything else is under the hood enhancements.
Yeah, Windows is hard because it changes so much. To hell with the Start menu!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
My question - why would you think that - was in regard to Jason's assumption that more people would like Linux - why would he think that?
Ah, they would like it because it is easier to learn, the knowledge lasts longer (Linux takes less retraining than Windows does as it changes more slowly), it is more rewarding and less work and it pays far more. Better pay, less work, typically more rewarding, easier to do remotely.... what's not to love from a job and career perspective?
I give you all those points in job and career - but you need to get people onto Linux first. When I was growing up it was mainly DOS or Win 3.x, but the barrier to computer when I was growing up was still pretty high (costly). Clearly that's not the situation today, nor has it been since somewhere between 1998 and 2002.
Those who grew up (say ages 8-15) during those years were primarily exposed Windows or Mac OS. There's been a huge shift again, iPhones/pads, etc there is less need to learn how to use a computer and more treating it like an appliance. I'm really curious how things are going to look 15-30 years from now as today's kids grow up not needing to really learn how a computer works, instead they just use this appliance, kinda like using a TV. Of course there will be that small percentage, like there has always been, that will go into the field, but the lack of needing to learn how to use a computer for their job, instead just using an appliance - we could see a severe reduction in technical geared workers.
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@PSX_Defector said:
I can do lots of things in both types of environments, but that's because I'm old and have seen it all. I stick with Microsoft because its more lucrative, being that people expect if you know Windows then you know SQL, Sharepoint, Exchange, and XBox. Opens more doors for me.
While this is bizzare, I've definitely it to be true - Just because you know Windows, well hell then you must know SQL, SP, etc.
