Considering FileMaker or Access for a Starter Database
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@JaredBusch said:
I will agree with @scottalanmiller saying that it should never be used. I will disagree with building entire applications to connect and manage a database.
Ah, good point, I removed the original question as they did not post it here. The response was for a company that needed access to this from several desktops and several mobile devices. I don't know what "several" means, but I am assuming a minimum of six end points today based on the context with an expectation of future growth.
I didn't mean to imply that a one person company would do the same thing. I should have included more context. Still would not use FM, too expensive. Excel, Base and others are too good.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
I will agree with @scottalanmiller saying that it should never be used. I will disagree with building entire applications to connect and manage a database.
Ah, good point, I removed the original question as they did not post it here. The response was for a company that needed access to this from several desktops and several mobile devices. I don't know what "several" means, but I am assuming a minimum of six end points today based on the context with an expectation of future growth.
I didn't mean to imply that a one person company would do the same thing. I should have included more context. Still would not use FM, too expensive. Excel, Base and others are too good.
Ah, yes. In that context, a simple web based app is absolutely the best way to go.
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@scottalanmiller said:
desktops and several mobile devices
That's enough to discount filemaker I think. You can build native mobile apps with Alpha Five but for the price it's not worth it. I think Drupal shines here again. You can use MariaDB, PostgreSQL, and Oracle.
You can do mobile with APEX, but you're locked into Oracle.
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I think the one big plus to systems like FileMaker, Alpha Five, and possibly Access are the reporting tools. Using those with ODBC can generate some really nice reports. Faster than querying and exporting to excel and then trying to move data around to make it look nice.
But like I said before, Drupal can do this with Views, and APEX has reporting also.
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@johnhooks said:
@scottalanmiller said:
desktops and several mobile devices
That's enough to discount filemaker I think. You can build native mobile apps with Alpha Five but for the price it's not worth it. I think Drupal shines here again. You can use MariaDB, PostgreSQL, and Oracle.
You can do mobile with APEX, but you're locked into Oracle.
I've never looked at Drupal in that kind of capacity. What database interface creation options does it have?
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LibreOffice Base might be a good way just to get started. It will talk to the databases that you mentioned, but it still needs to be deployed to a local desktop. But you could start with that to get something working "same day" and then use some other tool to make the application that people actually use.
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I invited the OP to comment on this thread. The post here had more responses in five minutes than the original did elsewhere in an hour
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
@scottalanmiller said:
desktops and several mobile devices
That's enough to discount filemaker I think. You can build native mobile apps with Alpha Five but for the price it's not worth it. I think Drupal shines here again. You can use MariaDB, PostgreSQL, and Oracle.
You can do mobile with APEX, but you're locked into Oracle.
I've never looked at Drupal in that kind of capacity. What database interface creation options does it have?
Everything is created from an entity. Normally you create a content type and then add the fields you want, but content types have a bunch of extra information like author, timestamp, etc. If you create a bare entity it has only the info you want. This is all done from the admin menu and you design the form that gets filled in.
I did an intranet for the shop that allows us to track maintenance records, Lock Out Tag Out, Safety, and production issues by serial number. The image shows the fields created for a safety accident report.
Here's what the form looks like when a user is filling it out (it's longer, I can't fit all of it in the screenshot). Fields can be hidden or not usable based on permissions.
And here's a sample report with views based on filters (no accident reports so I had to pick something else). If you click that CSV button, it downloads all the info to a CSV file. The blue links go to the actual entry.
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Nice, it's been forever since I've played with Drupal, I need to mess with that again.
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I'm going to throw a Drupal site up on ASO to check it out.
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The new APEX looks interesting. If you click get started you can do a hosted demo. Looks like you can do desktop apps, mobile, and web.
Eh I think the differences are just the layouts of the apps, but it looks easier than the old one.
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And here's the resident Access fanboy to have his say. I don't know why people have such a downer about it. There's certainly a lot of misinformation out there. I suggest people read this wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Access and get educated.
People seem to assume Access will only work with Access databases (Jet), when it works brilliantly with other databases, especially SQL server but I've written apps based on Oracle. I mostly use it with SQL Server these days. Whatever you use, the database should reside on a server not a desktop.
And Access runtime is free. So you can develop multi users solutions using Access runtime and SQL Server express for practically free.
And people talk about web apps. Access is designed to produce web apps, particularly with Sharepoint. Think of it more as an alternative to Visual Studio.
I thing the haters either have hardly used Access or haven't used it since the nineties.
It's awesome and keeps getting better with each new release.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
People seem to assume Access will only work with Access databases (Jet), when it works brilliantly with other databases, especially SQL server but I've written apps based on Oracle. I mostly use it with SQL Server these days. Whatever you use, the database should reside on a server not a desktop.
I'm very aware that it talks to SQL Server, that's the only way that I would ever consider using it, but was unaware that it works with other options. Will it talk to the big two: MariaDB and PostgreSQL or at least Firebird?
The assumption is that Access would be used this way, the problem with it is the client/server model. That's 1990s and pretty horrible. I know that you can put Access onto SQL Server and Sharepoint Enterprise for a full modern app, but the cost is incredibly high.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
And Access runtime is free. So you can develop multi users solutions using Access runtime and SQL Server express for practically free.
The runtime is free? Is that true on iOS devices too (a requirement for the client in question.) What about on Linux? Can we "access" it from anywhere?
SQL Server Express is free... except for the Windows Server license cost which would be required for even a tiny company and means that the cost shoots up by about $700. Not epic, but for a ten person company, not trivial either. But if you can use PostgreSQL, that would solve that piece.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
And people talk about web apps. Access is designed to produce web apps, particularly with Sharepoint. Think of it more as an alternative to Visual Studio.
We've done this, although to be honest the results were horrific. SharePoint and Access were so slow together, it was painful to use. Not sure if we were missing something but it didn't seen to use WebSockets or anything modern and the response times from SP on SQL were rough.
Can you do with with anything other than SharePoint Enterprise? When we looked at it, it was an enterprise only feature. Which you get with Office 365 E3, which we have and that's how we got it, but for a small business without O365, I feel like the cost is out of reach.
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Someone on the thread mentioned Zoho Creator. It looks interesting, but looking into the pricing model, it doesn't look interesting at all.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Someone on the thread mentioned Zoho Creator. It looks interesting, but looking into the pricing model, it doesn't look interesting at all.
Ya I think really the only thing they have that's truly appealing is the Email. It's free for 10 people (plus like 15 more with referrals) and only about $2.50 (something around there) for paid accounts.
However, they still don't have desktop exchange support, only EAS. I use the web interface but it's still kind of crazy because you can't use any calendar apps built for desktop.
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That Zoho product is NOT cheap. Saw your post, $5-$15/user each month. That adds up really quickly. That's well into custom, enterprise app prices if you get any number of users. Paying $15/mo for each user when you have to make the app yourself doesn't make sense. You could be paying for something already built at those prices.
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So the place I interviewed with yesterday is a big Oracle shop. I was surprised to hear they use APEX for some of their process improvement and internal web app use. I thought that was interesting, and the interviewer thought it was interesting that I've used it before.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
People seem to assume Access will only work with Access databases (Jet), when it works brilliantly with other databases, especially SQL server but I've written apps based on Oracle. I mostly use it with SQL Server these days. Whatever you use, the database should reside on a server not a desktop.
I'm very aware that it talks to SQL Server, that's the only way that I would ever consider using it, but was unaware that it works with other options. Will it talk to the big two: MariaDB and PostgreSQL or at least Firebird?
It's called ODBC.
I used Access to connect to my AS/400's DB2 server. As long as ODBC is presented to the client, it works just fine.
