Apple bricks phone if not serviced by Apple
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@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I think you forget... this is Apple people are going to buy Apple equipment. The market has a short memory... next month I doubt anyone will be talking about this.
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@coliver said:
I think you forget... this is Apple people are going to buy Apple equipment. The market has a short memory... next month I doubt anyone will be talking about this.
Which shows what Apple thinks of their customers. I'm not saying that they aren't right and that most of their customers aren't clueless, this just shows that they will openly leverage that. In no way did I suggest that this would not make Apple money, only that it makes Apple a company to be avoided.
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Apple's stance is apparently that it is a feature that your phone is bricked. Apparently even Apple thinks that the only good Apple product is a dead one.
Makes me very sad that I have been supporting the iPhone all this time.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
I do agree that if Apple does not correct this that it is indeed a sad day and it may drive me to change.
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
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@JaredBusch said:
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
Which means that they could also reverse it, quickly.
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@JaredBusch said:
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
That they have always done things poorly does not make it any less bad that they are not responding to their customers, ethics or the law now. If anything, it makes it worse. Regardless of their lack of customer care in the past, their responsibilities today remain the same.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
I do agree that if Apple does not correct this that it is indeed a sad day and it may drive me to change.
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
To this end, how long did it take them to admit the antenna problem?
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@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
I do agree that if Apple does not correct this that it is indeed a sad day and it may drive me to change.
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
To this end, how long did it take them to admit the antenna problem?
Did they ever admit it? I thought antenna-gate was swept under the rug. I even remember Jobs going on stage and demonstrating that it wasn't an issue.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
I do agree that if Apple does not correct this that it is indeed a sad day and it may drive me to change.
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
To this end, how long did it take them to admit the antenna problem?
Did they ever admit it? I thought antenna-gate was swept under the rug. I even remember Jobs going on stage and demonstrating that it wasn't an issue.
I suppose that speaks to @scottalanmiller point even more!
Since I don't use Apple products I didn't know what the outcome was - i thought I heard they gave away cases or some shit to 'fix' the problem, but maybe not.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
I do agree that if Apple does not correct this that it is indeed a sad day and it may drive me to change.
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
To this end, how long did it take them to admit the antenna problem?
Did they ever admit it? I thought antenna-gate was swept under the rug. I even remember Jobs going on stage and demonstrating that it wasn't an issue.
I suppose that speaks to @scottalanmiller point even more!
Since I don't use Apple products I didn't know what the outcome was - i thought I heard they gave away cases or some shit to 'fix' the problem, but maybe not.
I was wrong, they did admit the issue after a legal threat - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4#Antenna Although interestingly they never did anything to rectify the issue other then cases. The design remained unchanged until it was retired.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
I do agree that if Apple does not correct this that it is indeed a sad day and it may drive me to change.
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
To this end, how long did it take them to admit the antenna problem?
Did they ever admit it? I thought antenna-gate was swept under the rug. I even remember Jobs going on stage and demonstrating that it wasn't an issue.
I suppose that speaks to @scottalanmiller point even more!
Since I don't use Apple products I didn't know what the outcome was - i thought I heard they gave away cases or some shit to 'fix' the problem, but maybe not.
I was wrong, they did admit the issue after a legal threat - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4#Antenna Although interestingly they never did anything to rectify the issue other then cases.
The design remained unchanged until it was retired.That doesn't surprise me - It seems like it was a fundamental flaw in design and only a redesign would probably fix.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
That they have always done things poorly does not make it any less bad that they are not responding to their customers, ethics or the law now. If anything, it makes it worse. Regardless of their lack of customer care in the past, their responsibilities today remain the same.
No matter what the 24 hour, immediate gratification news cycles tries to imply, I personally will side with companies that do not just blow in the wind with everything.
I am not stating that Apple is right in bricking phones as I have clearly stated this is wrong in prior posts.
But knee jerk reactions to news is not the right way to run your business, ever.
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@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
I do agree that if Apple does not correct this that it is indeed a sad day and it may drive me to change.
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
To this end, how long did it take them to admit the antenna problem?
It's a bit different, though. This is actively breaking something that they do not own, intentionally. It's a form of vandalism.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
That they have always done things poorly does not make it any less bad that they are not responding to their customers, ethics or the law now. If anything, it makes it worse. Regardless of their lack of customer care in the past, their responsibilities today remain the same.
No matter what the 24 hour, immediate gratification news cycles tries to imply, I personally will side with companies that do not just blow in the wind with everything.
I am not stating that Apple is right in bricking phones as I have clearly stated this is wrong in prior posts.
But knee jerk reactions to news is not the right way to run your business, ever.
All true. But I would hope that they had a LOT of warning that this was coming. If they knew that they were going to do it, then this past week isn't a surprise and they should have been ready. If it is a surprise, they should be in full on internal panic mode that they are actively attacking their own customers.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB fingers crossed that that makes a difference.
That there has been such a public and legal backlash and Apple has not yet apologized or reverted the action suggests that Apple, even if it was a mistake originally and not thought through, is now doing it intentionally. What might (if you can even believe its possible) have started as Apple being clueless cannot be claimed any longer. Apple is now willing facing public outcry, government inquiry, potential legal threats and customers talking about leaving their most critical bastion of ecosystem stability over this issue and maintaining its stance in spite of all of that.... well, now it is a very different matter.
Every moment that Apple is not apologizing, isn't fixing the code they are telling their customers how little they think of them as customers and how little they think of ethics and of the law.
Anyone can make a mistake. As hard as this one is to believe. But their decisions now that they know the reaction to that decision are intentional and continuous.
I completely disagree with this assessment. Apple has never been a company that jumps on news or acts in a fast reactionary way.
I do agree that if Apple does not correct this that it is indeed a sad day and it may drive me to change.
But a major security shift (based on Apple's claims that this is all about security) like this should not happen overnight. Ever.
To this end, how long did it take them to admit the antenna problem?
It's a bit different, though. This is actively breaking something that they do not own, intentionally. It's a form of vandalism.
I agree that Apple has definitely taken the wrong path here - Just disabling the touch senor would have been the right thing to do (and personally completely acceptable), but I was mentioning the antenna issue because, as JB said - large corporations don't spin on a dime. I expect them to take a week, maybe two to get their stories straight before responding to something like that or this new problem. Sure we hate the delay - but they are a business, and they are looking out for themselves - heck, as you've said in the past, they have a legal obligation to make as much money as possible as a public company - so weighing those options that are now making you question wither or not you will continue to own their products is one of those options they must weight. In light of short memory of consumers, and relatively small number of people (overall) that are affected by this problem - I wouldn't be surprised if they did little to nothing about it.
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@Dashrender said:
I expect them to take a week,
It's been over a week since the Guardian suggested that they were not just making a plunder, but breaking the law. So they are long past the spinning on a dime point. -
@Dashrender said:
I agree that Apple has definitely taken the wrong path here - Just disabling the touch senor would have been the right thing to do (and personally completely acceptable), but I was mentioning the antenna issue because, as JB said - large corporations don't spin on a dime.
But it's extremely different. The antenna issue was just bad design. There was nothing misleading, illegal or actionable in any reasonable way. Apple needed to change engineering, manufacturing, do tests... all things that they already did once and failed. And then there were potential recalls. The issue was not something that required immediate action nor could it have one.
The issue here is that Apples decides to brick each new phone again. It's not that they've done this to a few people... it's that they are, every day, deciding to do it to new people. It's not a mistake that they made in the past, it is a current decision to keep doing it. And it isn't a mistake (not at this point, at least regardless of how it started), it's an intent. And it is almost certainly illegal in all major jurisdictions.
So different on essentially every means of comparison. If Apple wants to take a conservative approach, they stop bricking phones while they determine what is a reasonable thing to do. The issue here is that they did turn on a dime and do something quickly and are continuing to do it.
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@scottalanmiller I had no idea it was retroactive to people who've done it in the past - that's horrendous.
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller I had no idea it was retroactive to people who've done it in the past - that's horrendous.
The bricking happens when you upgrade to a new IOS version regardless of when you fixed your phone.
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@Dashrender said:
@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller I had no idea it was retroactive to people who've done it in the past - that's horrendous.
The bricking happens when you upgrade to a new IOS version regardless of when you fixed your phone.
So you have your choice of being slowly screwed as an informed consumer or get a suprise as an uninformed consumer.
Sounds fun to me.
