Firmware Updates Hit Surface Pro 3 and Surface 3
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@Dashrender said:
Maybe Android did have universal apps to run on any platform, but they don't! I don't know of a single Android app that runs on all platforms.
Kids make them for classes all of the time. They are not that popular with developers for whatever reason, but they certainly have them and always have. Just because the ones that you use choose not to offer that does not imply in any way that the platform has not always had it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
And my point was that they were not the first, they were the last. They were the only one that saved it until now... and they waited so long to do it that apparently people forgot that it was a problem that only they ever had.
Please quote the post where I said MS was first. I can't seem to find it so I can correct it.
Of course MS wasn't the first to do or try this. But they, unlike anyone else, are advertising this - and while I know that you like dedicated devices for dedicate purposes, I like having my apps everywhere, all the time, even if I rarely use them on a given platform.
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@Dashrender said:
Now you might still say that it's not because Android apps have always been written platform agnostic and as such can run anywhere - but then I ask you, how can I run my Android apps on my desktop
What you are missing is that you have to CHOOSE to write them that way. People don't choose to do so.
Why doesn't Word run on my non-full desktop? Because Windows isn't universal. There is a special "universal" platform - Microsoft code name for a web app.
You are using dual values in each case. You are praising Windows and their "web apps run everywhere" platform then says "don't tell me web apps" when it comes to other platforms.
They are all one and the same. HTML5 apps are what Windows calls universal. The only difference is marketing. iOS and Android are being transparent, Windows is pulling the wool over. In all cases things are exactly the same... there are native and web apps. The web apps are universal and the native are not. Windows was last to this game.
That's all that there is.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
MS was the first consumer branded to try to make apps work universally across all devices in their ecosystem.
This statement is what we've been discussing.
This one, that I've already quoted for you
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
You treat iOS and OSX as merged but you don't say that iOS doesn't run on a desktop but Android you expect to, why?
I treaded iOS and OSX as merged? I don't think so - they are completely different things - they require two different kinds of applications, well maybe they don't. maybe HTML 5 will run on both platforms, but they don't promote that, they don't have apps on both platforms that I'm aware of (single app with two front ends, one for OSX and one for iOS). If you know of one, I'll stand corrected. and don't mention some webpage thing either - that's a webpage running on a server on the internet, it's not an app.
You treat them as a "pair", but you act like Android itself has to be sold on desktops to have a desktop, but it has Linux, ChromeOS and even Mac or Windows for its desktop. That was my point.
OK I'll give you that - but please again, where can I run those Android apps? tell me how I run a APK on a Chomebook?
Apple used to promote this, it's so old that no one talks about it anymore.
They did?
Um ALL of them are webpages. That's how ALL universal on Windows works.
The locally installed app maybe be a webpage, but it's all local - but you can't take an iOS app and simply run it on OSX -can you?
You can't take an Android app and just run it on Windows, on Linux, on ChromeOS, can you? with nothing more needed? no emulators, etc. it just works?
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@Dashrender said:
Of course MS wasn't the first to do or try this. But they, unlike anyone else, are advertising this - and while I know that you like dedicated devices for dedicate purposes, I like having my apps everywhere, all the time, even if I rarely use them on a given platform.
Everyone advertised it. It's so old that it would be embarrassing to keep pushing it like this is 2008 or something. Only in the Windows world are people feeling like this is new or something. This is old hat to the rest of us. I was studying how they were doing this when I still lived in Geneseo - sold that house in 2007. That Microsoft is pushing it shows just how far behind they are, nothing more.
Are web apps a good idea? Yes, they are great. Is making them the only option good? Not likely. Do people like using them? Not very much. Has Microsoft done anything here except gamble that their customers won't point and laugh at the emperor's new clothes? No.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
MS was the first consumer branded to try to make apps work universally across all devices in their ecosystem.
This statement is what we've been discussing.
This one, that I've already quoted for you
I stand by this, unless you can prove to me that you can already run Android apps on any linux box with no changes to the linux box other than being up to date.
The same goes for Apple.
Unless you can take the iOS app and run it directly on an OSX machine, you still haven't achieved my stated goal.Across their entire ecosystem - I'm talking about Windows - MS is trying to make it so you write one app, and it runs on mobile and desktop (hell in some cases even hololens and IoT).
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@Dashrender said:
OK I'll give you that - but please again, where can I run those Android apps? tell me how I run a APK on a Chomebook?
I feel like you are not reading anything I've written. APK is the NATIVE format, like EXE. Can you run any C++ on Windows mobile? No. So obviously this isn't a valid question.
You are talking about web apps on windows and ignoring the web apps elsewhere. You want Android NATIVE instead of Android UNIVERSAL to run everywhere. Well they don't, and neither does Windows. So why have this discussion?
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@Dashrender said:
The locally installed app maybe be a webpage, but it's all local - but you can't take an iOS app and simply run it on OSX -can you?
Of course you can, I've said this over and over and over.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Are web apps a good idea? Yes, they are great. Is making them the only option good? Not likely. Do people like using them? Not very much. Has Microsoft done anything here except gamble that their customers won't point and laugh at the emperor's new clothes? No.
When you're talking about web apps, are you talking about hosted webapps? Like O365?
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm taking about things like Minecraft. One code base that runs everywhere, mobile/phone/IoT/Hollowlense, etc.
If you're only talking about server side based apps, that's completely different.
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@Dashrender said:
Apple used to promote this, it's so old that no one talks about it anymore.
They did?
Sure did. And Google Maps uses it to get past, or used to, the Apple Store problem. Google Maps is a good example of one that runs everywhere.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Apple used to promote this, it's so old that no one talks about it anymore.
They did?
Sure did. And Google Maps uses it to get past, or used to, the Apple Store problem. Google Maps is a good example of one that runs everywhere.
Google Maps, assuming no end user device install - is not an app. at least not in the classical sense.
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@Dashrender said:
When you're talking about web apps, are you talking about hosted webapps? Like O365?
No, I'm talking about applications built in HTML5. Like the Google Maps application. They run like any other application. I'm talking about absolutely identical to what you call "universal."
I keep explaining, you are using Microsoft's marketing spiel of "universal" to refer to "web apps." That's all that that means.
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@Dashrender said:
Google Maps, assuming no end user device install - is not an app. at least not in the classical sense.
Why do you define app differently for this one app than all others?
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@Dashrender said:
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm taking about things like Minecraft. One code base that runs everywhere, mobile/phone/IoT/Hollowlense, etc.
As am I. It's exactly the one I was thinking of. Minecraft for Windows 10 was implemented in HTML5.
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@Dashrender said:
If you're only talking about server side based apps, that's completely different.
No one has talked about anything like that.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
MS was the first consumer branded to try to make apps work universally across all devices in their ecosystem.
This statement is what we've been discussing.
This one, that I've already quoted for you
I stand by this, unless you can prove to me that you can already run Android apps on any linux box with no changes to the linux box other than being up to date.
The same goes for Apple.
Unless you can take the iOS app and run it directly on an OSX machine, you still haven't achieved my stated goal.Sure can. I don't know what else to tell you.
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@Dashrender said:
You can't take an Android app and just run it on Windows, on Linux, on ChromeOS, can you? with nothing more needed? no emulators, etc. it just works?
Of course you can.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Google Maps, assuming no end user device install - is not an app. at least not in the classical sense.
Why do you define app differently for this one app than all others?
I don't think that I am...
Is there a Google Maps app in the iTunes store? I thought that there was - but then you mentioned something about getting around Apples store problems... so now I'm confused.If using Google Maps on iPhones is nothing more than visiting a webpage, then it's not an app - it's a webapp, and I would fully expect that webapp to work anywhere that has a browser that follows the web standards, assuming that Google programmed Google Maps in a standards based way.
that is not what I'm talking about for apps on a phone.
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@Dashrender said:
Across their entire ecosystem - I'm talking about Windows - MS is trying to make it so you write one app, and it runs on mobile and desktop (hell in some cases even hololens and IoT).
There is no confusion here. I'm saying that Microsoft is the last one to try to do this. This has been tackled and is old hat. There was no one left except Microsoft to not offer this.
