Onedrive is shrinking
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
I really do feel, though, as an additional aside not yet mentioned, that there is this weird social construct where we have all agreed that it is okay to force other people to buy and install MS Office and to do so in a compatible version with our own installation but it is not socially acceptable to expect people to install something for free to do the same things. How weird is that?
If we need to jointly edit files together, why not expect other people to install LibreOffice? They expected so much more from you.
This boils down to timing and social acceptance.
MS has owned this space since the lat 90's. Open Source and/or Free software for the general public is still new. It's further skewed by the number of scams out there trying to take advantage of people with their free things online.
OpenOffice has been a major player since 1985. MS Office gained that "ownership" of the market only through the very thing I'm stating - that it was somehow socially acceptable to force people to buy that product and not others.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I think with Office including Save As PDF we are starting to see a shift away from sending editable documents to each other, even when there is no need.
Hopefully, it exposes the use of a collaboration format for publication. Office was never meant for collaboration and sharing like it was used for. It was designed to make something that would print out well. That's why the "Print as PDF" was used originally, it is what matched existing workflows.
Print to PDF was included in an Office version? Do you recall which one?
Wasn't included as far as I know, just readily available and standard. In the UNIX world, it was just part of the OS!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I think with Office including Save As PDF we are starting to see a shift away from sending editable documents to each other, even when there is no need.
Hopefully, it exposes the use of a collaboration format for publication. Office was never meant for collaboration and sharing like it was used for. It was designed to make something that would print out well. That's why the "Print as PDF" was used originally, it is what matched existing workflows.
Print to PDF was included in an Office version? Do you recall which one?
Wasn't included as far as I know, just readily available and standard. In the UNIX world, it was just part of the OS!
Yeah it's still not part of the Windows OS, that crazy XPS thing is - is that a standard or is it a Microsoft standard?
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Save As PDF has been in since at least Office 2013, maybe even 2010.
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I think 2010. I'm on 2013 and it did not feel new.
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@Dashrender said:
Yeah it's still not part of the Windows OS, that crazy XPS thing is - is that a standard or is it a Microsoft standard?
PDF is the standard. XPS isn't even a Microsoft standard, just a Microsoft option.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Yeah it's still not part of the Windows OS, that crazy XPS thing is - is that a standard or is it a Microsoft standard?
PDF is the standard. XPS isn't even a Microsoft standard, just a Microsoft option.
I've never known anyone to use it on purpose.
Heck - years ago I used to delete it. I just got tired of doing so.
I suppose it's time to learn how to kill it either by GP or script. lol
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We used XPS for a while, actually. It was fine for MS shops.
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You act like anyone can just tell their clients "yeah you have to install openoffice" or "no, you can't have the deliverables".
They do what they want, and we have to adapt, or we find new clients.
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@BRRABill said:
You act like anyone can just tell their clients "yeah you have to install openoffice" or "no, you can't have the deliverables".
They do what they want, and we have to adapt, or we find new clients.
Not my clients. Or they cease being my clients. Catering to "what they want" is your problem.
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I am talking on the non-IT side of our business.
We've been in business for almost 50 years, and didn't get there by firing clients.
Not saying it's not the right thing to do. Just not for everyone. And certainly not for big clients.
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@BRRABill said:
I am talking on the non-IT side of our business.
We've been in business for almost 50 years, and didn't get there by firing clients.
Not saying it's not the right thing to do. Just not for everyone. And certainly not for big clients.
You should not have a big client that does not have a concept of what you say is the best thing for their business and that they better take it seriously.
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@JaredBusch said:
You should not have a big client that does not have a concept of what you say is the best thing for their business and that they better take it seriously.
Our big clients are really big. The people we deal with have no say with IT, and can barely even reach out to them.
It's always all we can do to work through issues to get them what they need and keep everyone happy.
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@BRRABill said:
@JaredBusch said:
You should not have a big client that does not have a concept of what you say is the best thing for their business and that they better take it seriously.
Our big clients are really big. The people we deal with have no say with IT, and can barely even reach out to them.
It's always all we can do to work through issues to get them what they need and keep everyone happy.
If you are not dealing with IT decision makers, I have to ask WTF are you doing with them? Or are you meaning these are non-IT clients?
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@JaredBusch said:
If you are not dealing with IT decision makers, I have to ask WTF are you doing with them? Or are you meaning these are non-IT clients?
Yes, on the non-IT side of our business they are all non-IT. And so far removed as to have no say in their IT operations.
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@BRRABill said:
You act like anyone can just tell their clients "yeah you have to install openoffice" or "no, you can't have the deliverables".
They do what they want, and we have to adapt, or we find new clients.
Yup, you find new clients. That's how it works. That's certainly one solution.
If your clients aren't taking your advice, what are you providing for them? it's not that we wont' do work, but when we explain why they should do certain things they listen - because they pay us for exactly this advice. If they aren't going to listen that would make them insane. Why would you pay for advice you aren't going to listen to?
Do they listen every single time? No. But nearly so. Because we always make a good business case that is well thought through and presented and explained. We don't recommend things that don't have a viable business case.
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@scottalanmiller said:
We don't recommend things that don't have a viable business case.
This is the key thing here. It is something that you enable by not using the MSP model.
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@BRRABill said:
I am talking on the non-IT side of our business.
We've been in business for almost 50 years, and didn't get there by firing clients.
Not saying it's not the right thing to do. Just not for everyone. And certainly not for big clients.
I don't follow this. Is this really consulting? If your clients don't listen to you, what are they paying you for? Or do you just tell them what they want to hear?
You have long term clients that don't trust you? What conditions exist where you give good advice, make a good business case, the clients think you are nuts and they do their own thing and they keep writing you checks.
Am I missing how this is working?
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@BRRABill said:
@JaredBusch said:
If you are not dealing with IT decision makers, I have to ask WTF are you doing with them? Or are you meaning these are non-IT clients?
Yes, on the non-IT side of our business they are all non-IT. And so far removed as to have no say in their IT operations.
Okay but.... what does any of this have to do with the discussion then? I don't see the connection. As an IT consultancy our customers don't take our accounting advice because they aren't paying us to provide it and we don't provide that. The discussion at hand was about how to deal with clients - customers paying for advice and not listening. Right?
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
We don't recommend things that don't have a viable business case.
This is the key thing here. It is something that you enable by not using the MSP model.
Good point. The MSP model is really about doing what they want. It, on its own, is not a consulting model. It's just a support model, like taking your car into the shop and asking them to change the oil. They don't really give you an oil changing opinion, just change it and slap a 3,500 mile sticker on the windshield. That's it.
When you bring in a consultant, you are paying for advice. The consultant can also do work, but the core value is in the advice. Just like internal IT would provide. If they aren't listening, they would be crazy to maintain the relationship.
