@scottalanmiller said in Windows Desktop Licensing: Cannot be used as a server:

Examples of other common violations:

• Spiceworks or any web application cannot be used from a desktop
• QuickBooks cannot be served from a desktop
• Web pages

More or less anything that you’d want to do. It all requires a server. That’s the entire point of the cheap workstation licenses - you get them dirt cheap compared to a server license but can’t do anything you’d want a server for.

All of the things above are fine as long as you don’t access them from another machine. Which is why they are allowed to be installed.

The EULA does give an exception for Internet information services. Since it's not specifically saying IIS, and any other definition for Internet information services is google-washed, do I assume the definition is the same as the services that IIS is capable of?

@scottalanmiller said in Windows Desktop Licensing: Cannot be used as a server:

The 20 concurrent is a networking limit and unrelated to the license issues. It is not a factor.

It does mention 20 devices in the EULA, but I agree that built-in software limitations != licence restrictions

I guess it was easy enough to find in the EULA

For Windows 10

Multi use scenarios.
...
(iii) Device connections. You may allow up to 20 other devices to access the software installed on the licensed device for the purpose of using the following software features: file services, print services, Internet information services, and Internet connection sharing and telephony services on the licensed device. You may allow any number of devices to access the software on the licensed device to synchronize data between devices. This section does not mean, however, that you have the right to install the software, or use the primary function of the software (other than the features listed in this section), on any of these other devices.

I've seen it mentioned here that a Windows Desktop OS is not licensed to act as a server. I know this is pretty common for small businesses to do, and I was wondering where I could find the information on this, and what kind roles this is refers to.

As far as I was aware, as long as you stay under the 20 concurrent connection limit, and the one user desktop login in limit, you would be fine to utilise the capabilities of the OS to serve other clients. Isn't this kind of what a windows workgroup is about? A Windows Desktop OS has the ability to act as a sort of file server, and Microsoft tries to make it easier to do so. (which doesn't necessarily mean it is compliant with their licencing)

We have a lot of clients running SQL on a Windows Desktop OS, is that against the licencing? Where can I read about this?

@wls-itguy said in How many of you...:

So how long before SodiumSuite can do all of what can do?

Is there already any reason to be using software vs other free alternative?

Last time I logged in I had a new up from SAM, so I've apparently missed something.

That .5% Ruby is not insignificant and shows the growing popularity of Ruby on Rails.

Python is a great language to learn because there are so many different areas it is used. But Ruby on Rails is much more common for building kickass web apps. Ruby is also used for many things (Chef and Puppet if we're thinking about CMs) but I think Python is still better for variety.

@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:

I really like Ruby, though.

I had to write a quick little code snippet in Ruby once, was not as intuitive |for| me as I expected.

Part of the problem is that I didn't believe the syntax my google searches were showing me.

@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:

But the differences are so small. I took a quick look at Python last night to compare it to PHP, and it was SO MUCH EASIER after I had done the same stuff with PHP.

Lots of programming is very cumulative that way. You should also be able to apply what you're learning back to powershell

@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:

I started with Python last night for about 45 minutes..

I feel like I'd rather learn JS first, but it seems learning both is best. So starting with Python then Django, then JavaScript. They all go together, but Python seems to have more overall uses in IT.

Yes, there are so many Python modules out there that you could probably almost replace Powershell with it.

@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:

I found this website which looks interesting and helpful:

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/

Yep, that would be a good one. Here are some more

https://python.swaroopch.com/index.html
http://getpython3.com/diveintopython3/
https://anandology.com/python-practice-book/index.html
http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/index.html

This is one good one

http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/

@wirestyle22 said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:

Many of my programmer friends have recommended this: https://learnpythonthehardway.org/ if you're interested in Python specifically

That's where I started, when it was free. Not sure if it is worth to pay for it. It uses a few good learning patterns, but you should just apply them to all code you learn.

Type out all code you're learning, don't copy paste. Try to read and understand it as you type it.

Then play with the code, figure out how it works, how you break it.

Get a simple project going that you can apply what you are learning to. Your own text-based game is a great way to start.

IMO, Learn Python the Hard Way doesn't do a great job with OOP, but maybe it is just something you have to play with a lot in order to get it. Definitely spend a lot of time here, understanding the basics of it needs to come as second nature. You can play with it in Powershell too.

There are some great free resources online, I can find a few links later

@tim_g

Flask is an unassuming simple framework. It is good for creating something simple, or for creating something complex and cutting edge where you need flexibility. In order to build out a webapp, you would need to learn more components than just Flask.

Django is a monolithic framework, batteries are included. You just have to learn Django in order to build a web app. You don't have to create things from scratch, but there are certain ways to do things, so there is less flexibility. It takes longer to learn Django, because there is so much more there. But when you do learn it, you can pump out web apps pretty fast. With Flask there are other things you have to learn, and you have to figure out how you want them to interact.

Once you have a decent amount of Python, you can learn at least the basics of Flask in a day, and then look at learning Django too.

If you're interested in messing around with Salt, I think Python is the way to go. Salt's code is pretty easy to understand and work with for junior devs, and you can start making your own customizations.

Python is a great first language, lots of practical uses too. Python + Django would get you creating your own web apps. Python + Tryton and you can create your own ERP

whoa... how come I didn't get a welcome when I joined?
So hurt....

@quixoticjustin said in Managing Windows Server Updates - Alternative to WSUS?:

Sodium has some really basic pieces of that already built in using Salt. It's very early and definitely not where it should be, but it's Salt with a GUI that is specifically tackling this problem.

That's nice to hear, when I took a peak at Sodium it looked like it was still pretty far behind at using a lot of Salt's capability.

We don't really care about a GUI in this situation, and we're already going to be requiring the power of Salt.

I am curious about how it is implemented in Sodium though, and how the user is expected to interact with it.

I've used WSUS before and didn't like it. Now at my current company they are looking into starting to use it for our new web service project. Salt has a pretty promising looking execution module and state module, but I can't wrap my head around the process we would use with it in order to manage updates without creating too much extra work by managing them.

It seems like that could be accomplished by just deploying each cumulative update. (This is for Server 2016) So would we just be updating the state with the latest cumulative update and removing the previous one from the installed list?

Is anyone using Salt for managing updates? What's your procedure? Are you using another tool?

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@jaredbusch said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...

You could talk to a tree for the same effect Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programming

Not starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code

That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.

2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.

The last one of these, I worked on went live in 2011. It was a horrid VB6 + Access database backend.

Thankfully it stopped using Access 7 years ago.

What is it using now?

MS SQL

I had assumed they didn't consider any other options, but I found some documentation the other day that showed they did consider other options.

It can be a nasty surprise for our smaller clients when they hit the 10GB limit for SQL express.

They considered them and STILL took that one? What did they consider and why did they choose it?

I don't know what all options they were looking at, but I do know that some of our integration partners freaked out at the thought of us using something open source. I doubt that would happen now though.

That tells you when you drop a partner.... not so much a partner as an enemy. Nothing wrong with closed source, but avoiding open source just because it is open source is either bad because of incompetence or bad because they are trying to screw you.

I'd say ignorance and incompetence. The problem is that we would probably lose more clients then they would if we dropped them.

Ever looked at recreating the software?

Software isn't really the service they provide.

We integrate with the 'suppliers' our clients use

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@jaredbusch said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...

You could talk to a tree for the same effect Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programming

Not starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code

That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.

2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.

The last one of these, I worked on went live in 2011. It was a horrid VB6 + Access database backend.

Thankfully it stopped using Access 7 years ago.

What is it using now?

MS SQL

I had assumed they didn't consider any other options, but I found some documentation the other day that showed they did consider other options.

It can be a nasty surprise for our smaller clients when they hit the 10GB limit for SQL express.

They considered them and STILL took that one? What did they consider and why did they choose it?

I don't know what all options they were looking at, but I do know that some of our integration partners freaked out at the thought of us using something open source. I doubt that would happen now though.

That tells you when you drop a partner.... not so much a partner as an enemy. Nothing wrong with closed source, but avoiding open source just because it is open source is either bad because of incompetence or bad because they are trying to screw you.

I'd say ignorance and incompetence. The problem is that we would probably lose more clients then they would if we dropped them.