Axigen X Released
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@aaronstuder said:
@scottalanmiller Doesn't NTG using Office 365? Why aren't you just using Linux?
Huh? I don't even understand the question.
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@axigen said:
@scottalanmiller the topic you address is valid and wide. On the other hand, why would commercial closed source exist anyway?
That's a valid question, and my answer would be... I don't know? Why would anyone choose closed source software when open source already exists that covers the same ground? Closed source is always a negative for the customer. So for closed source to compete, it must compete on ground that open source doesn't cover, or go for really clueless customers.
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@aaronstuder said:
@scottalanmiller Doesn't NTG using Office 365? Why aren't you just using Linux?
You are comparing a subscription licensing system to an operating system. The distance between these two things are pretty huge.
I've written extensively about why I believe in email being a commodity and should be hosted 99% of the time. Are you asking why we continue to believe in hosted email? That's a valid question, but wholly unrelated to the situation being discussed in this thread.
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@scottalanmiller My point is NTG uses Office365 for email, correct? Isn't that closed source? Why don't you just use Linux?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Closed source is always a negative for the customer. So for closed source to compete, it must compete on ground that open source doesn't cover, or go for really clueless customers.
First of all I do appreciate and respect your preference!
A closed source brings various benefits: Commercial Support (in various levels), Managed Services, On-demand integrations, Professional Services, etc. There are customers (and I would refrain from calling them clueless) that value these. -
@axigen said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Closed source is always a negative for the customer. So for closed source to compete, it must compete on ground that open source doesn't cover, or go for really clueless customers.
First of all I do appreciate and respect your preference!
A closed source brings various benefits: Commercial Support (in various levels), Managed Services, On-demand integrations, Professional Services, etc. There are customers (and I would refrain from calling them clueless) that value these.None of those things are brought by closed source, that's totally incorrect. Open source does all of those equally. The ONLY difference is in value and protections to the customers.
The customers that think that that is the value have to be clueless as all of that is wrong. Very, very confused customers.
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@aaronstuder said:
@scottalanmiller My point is NTG uses Office365 for email, correct? Isn't that closed source? Why don't you just use Linux?
We don't use SOFTWARE for email, we use a service. You are totally confusing service with product here.
You are also confusing Linux with Zimbra and Office 365 with Exchange.
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@scottalanmiller said:
We don't use SOFTWARE for email, we use a service. You are totally confusing service with product here.
No, I am not confused, your nit picking wording.
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Linux is not an email system, it is an operating system.
Are you saying that Axigen is a hosted service and not software? If so, why is their only selling point that I noticed on the site that they are an "alternative to open source?"
Not only is that what they have on their site, but they are promoting it here (with all incorrect information) which totally supports my theory that there wasn't any benefit to the software and that they are depending on customers that are idiots and think open source means something very different than it does.
Which is bizarre because they also tout that they run on Linux... which is open source. So why would someone who is willing to buy a product for the sole purpose of avoiding open source choose one that is closed... but depends on open source?
Something very odd there.
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@scottalanmiller said:
None of those things are brought by closed source, that's totally incorrect. Open source does all of those equally. The ONLY difference is in value and protections to the customers.
The customers that think that that is the value have to be clueless as all of that is wrong. Very, very confused customers.
I wonder, how much would be the services that we are taking about from Zimbra. You may know, as I do not! So value is to be observed when looking more in-depth not when skimming an offer.
It is your personal choice to label value on skimming techniques.
They may work well for you and may not be a good fit for others. -
@aaronstuder said:
@scottalanmiller said:
We don't use SOFTWARE for email, we use a service. You are totally confusing service with product here.
No, I am not confused, your nit picking wording.
Not in the slightest. The gap here is enormous. We do NOT buy proprietary email software, we buy a service. The licensing of the service is of zero interest to us because even if it was open source and running on Linux it would not mean that the source was available to us.
Calling this nit picking means you've missed the entire conversation.
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@scottalanmiller way to avoid question. Does NTG use Office 365 with Exchange? Is Office 365 with Exchange closed source? Why not just use Linux with Zimbra?
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@axigen said:
I wonder, how much would be the services that we are taking about from Zimbra. You may know, as I do not! So value is to be observed when looking more in-depth not when skimming an offer.
Everything that you mentioned is available with Zimbra, of course. Why would you be making claims that open source doesn't do those things and selling a product based solely on those claims if you are not even aware that they are available and have been for a very long time?
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@axigen said:
It is your personal choice to label value on skimming techniques.
I asked @aaronstuder why he continued to look at the product wonder where the value was. He has not mentioned ANY discovered value. You popped in and only mentioned false information as value. I would not call this skimming... I'd call this "no reason to continue looking."
If you have deep value, let us know what it is. Don't make it an attack on something you've stated you know nothing about. Instead of attacking open source, tell us where YOU create value.
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@aaronstuder said:
@scottalanmiller way to avoid question. Does NTG use Office 365 with Exchange? Is Office 365 with Exchange closed source? Why not just use Linux with Zimbra?
I avoided nothing. NTG uses hosted email via O365.
Linux with Zimbra is not hosted, so not even in consideration. As you well know it's software, not a service, so not something we would use. Why are you asking a question when you know it is clearly unrelated to the discussion here? You are trying to confuse people by starting an unrelated conversation with an accusatory tone in the hopes that it will mislead people from the actual question... why did you feel the need to promote this software? What value did you see in it?
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I'm totally unclear why you think a service and software are the same thing.
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I've never said that Axigen was bad, I asked what the value was that I was to be looking for. Instead of an answer, we got solid misdirection.
Does anyone have a reason why this is even worth talking about or not? From the responses, I'm assuming that both @aaronstuder and @axigen don't feel that there is and were hoping that no one was going to ask?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Linux with Zimbra is not hosted, so not even in consideration.
How is it not hosted? You can install Zimbra on a linux hosted VM, just like anything else.....
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Is axigen supposed to be a competitor to O365?
The server side runs on Linux and management / support is provided by Axigen?
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@scottalanmiller said:
You popped in and only mentioned false information as value. I would not call this skimming... I'd call this "no reason to continue looking."
In my opinion, I did not provide any false info.
@scottalanmiller said:
If you have deep value, let us know what it is. Don't make it an attack on something you've stated you know nothing about. Instead of attacking open source, tell us where YOU create value.
I am not attacking open source. Far from me. Please point out where I have done that and I will retract.
Axigen has a very easy way to setup and manage multi-node clusters. Axigen has a high density of users on a single node. Axigen has a modern interface and a easy to use WebAdmin interface. Axigen has a Provisioning API that allows easy integration with various BSS systems.Also I'd note that this initial thread here is not started by us. We were invited by @aaronstuder. I hoped that this would be a constructive conversation.
