Chopping off their own feet....
-
@IRJ said:
@Bill-Kindle said:
@IRJ said:
There are a few Spicy Peppers that avoid me now because of my participation on here. Anyone else on Mangolassi experience this?
Really?
Yeah, definitely. I dont get messages from them anymore and/or they no longer joke with me.
Wow, that is pretty sad of them.
-
@Bill-Kindle said:
@IRJ said:
@RAM. Thanks for the mentioning me, buddy.
I post on that other website less for a few reasons:
Quality over Quantity. The people over here are top problem solvers for the other website.
****The other site is now run by vendors. Every thing they do is sponsored by a vendor. To me that means that there is an obvious motive for every event. No vendor is going to pay for sponsoring an event and receive nothing in return. ****
The power struggle a few months ago showed that money was the number one concern of the other website now. You can see they are just hiring like crazy. You cant hire the best people anymore when you are constantly hiring. From my understanding, Everyone that was employed with them in the past was highly technical. If you have observed some of the new employees, you will know that is no longer the case. They are just like the sales people that haunt us on a daily basis.
Loss of vision and backbone. They definitely lost their original vision. They are no longer good guys that sell ads just to pay for development of their helpdesk software. There is money being passed around like crazy. When you have so much money from different places coming in, you dont want to offend anyone. That is why you are starting to see less and less heated discussions.
Speaking to the point in bold, the two webinars I've taken part in have both been for Virtualization and Group Policy (in about 30 minutes) have both been sponsored by AntiVirus vendors. Kinda weird, not saying anything bad about it but if they are paying to put the spot there.....
Here is my question. Why does everything have to be sponsored? Its ok to get sponsors to help out on big events where major resources are required. Here is the thing that bothers me, Why are we having simple 30 minute webinars that are sponsored by someone. Really, how much do these webinars cost to run? $200 or less. That is pennies to the big behometh that website has become. It just makes you question the quality of the material. Are they going to cater the webinars to fall in line with a vendors product in the future?
-
@RAM. said:
@IRJ said:
@Bill-Kindle said:
@IRJ said:
There are a few Spicy Peppers that avoid me now because of my participation on here. Anyone else on Mangolassi experience this?
Really?
Yeah, definitely. I dont get messages from them anymore and/or they no longer joke with me.
I thought you disappeared :-P, I was eventually going to PM you but... I started cutting my spiceworks usage back as well.... I'm no longer in the top participants per day, week, or month anymore.
I started to cut back my posting even before Mangolassi. The whole power struggle in SP soured me on the site.
-
@IRJ said:
@RAM. said:
@IRJ said:
@Bill-Kindle said:
@IRJ said:
There are a few Spicy Peppers that avoid me now because of my participation on here. Anyone else on Mangolassi experience this?
Really?
Yeah, definitely. I dont get messages from them anymore and/or they no longer joke with me.
I thought you disappeared :-P, I was eventually going to PM you but... I started cutting my spiceworks usage back as well.... I'm no longer in the top participants per day, week, or month anymore.
I started to cut back my posting even before Mangolassi. The whole power struggle in SP soured me on the site.
Oh god I know dude don't worry. There was a post @Nic interim in the administration and moderation group that honestly just screwed everything up. @Bill-Kindle stepped down due to it, and I followed shortly after. He asked me to help GA a group and well... I started too but... we were overrode by those "above" us... but yet they were equals. He stepped down, I stayed on for a month or two, and after this recent spat I decided I'm not going to help for free, cut me out. There are hidden people who fight in the admin group that no-one knows about. There are hidden insults in the admin group that no-one knows about. Its a real ego struggle that started kicking me back.
-
@IRJ said:
Here is my question. Why does everything have to be sponsored? Its ok to get sponsors to help out on big events where major resources are required. Here is the thing that bothers me, Why are we having simple 30 minute webinars that are sponsored by someone. Really, how much do these webinars cost to run? $200 or less. That is pennies to the big behometh that website has become. It just makes you question the quality of the material. Are they going to cater the webinars to fall in line with a vendors product in the future?
Because of their staff size, it actually costs a fortune to do anything. It takes a lot of man hours to put on even a trivial event. Add to that that they are a business and all they sell is advertising, of course everything has to be sponsors. Why would they do something for free?
I have lots of complaints but that is not one. That's just business.
Now quality control, that is its own issue.
-
@RAM. said:
@IRJ said:
@RAM. said:
@IRJ said:
@Bill-Kindle said:
@IRJ said:
There are a few Spicy Peppers that avoid me now because of my participation on here. Anyone else on Mangolassi experience this?
Really?
Yeah, definitely. I dont get messages from them anymore and/or they no longer joke with me.
I thought you disappeared :-P, I was eventually going to PM you but... I started cutting my spiceworks usage back as well.... I'm no longer in the top participants per day, week, or month anymore.
I started to cut back my posting even before Mangolassi. The whole power struggle in SP soured me on the site.
Oh god I know dude don't worry. There was a post @Nic interim in the administration and moderation group that honestly just screwed everything up. @Bill-Kindle stepped down due to it, and I followed shortly after. He asked me to help GA a group and well... I started too but... we were overrode by those "above" us... but yet they were equals. He stepped down, I stayed on for a month or two, and after this recent spat I decided I'm not going to help for free, cut me out. There are hidden people who fight in the admin group that no-one knows about. There are hidden insults in the admin group that no-one knows about. Its a real ego struggle that started kicking me back.
I always knew that was going on. You could see it in SPs so , I had every reason to believe it was going on higher levels. I believe some of the recent SPs are SW people or heavily influenced by them. You can just see a change in the culture when all those members hit SP in the matter of a week.
-
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
Here is my question. Why does everything have to be sponsored? Its ok to get sponsors to help out on big events where major resources are required. Here is the thing that bothers me, Why are we having simple 30 minute webinars that are sponsored by someone. Really, how much do these webinars cost to run? $200 or less. That is pennies to the big behometh that website has become. It just makes you question the quality of the material. Are they going to cater the webinars to fall in line with a vendors product in the future?
Because of their staff size, it actually costs a fortune to do anything. It takes a lot of man hours to put on even a trivial event. Add to that that they are a business and all they sell is advertising, of course everything has to be sponsors. Why would they do something for free?
I have lots of complaints but that is not one. That's just business.
Now quality control, that is its own issue.
I disagree, Scott. I dont pretend to know more about business than you, but here is my take on it.
The whole feel of SW is changing from community driven to vendor driven. The webinars should be a way to attract new members to the community. Its a small price to pay compared to other means of advertising. I can tell you from the employee side of the coin, I am very skeptical when I see sponsored webinars. We get badgered by sales people on a daily basis and dont have anywhere near the budget to get involved in every new product we see. I am not 100% sure on this, but I would think MSPs are seen as more valuable to vendors and sales people since you can push their product to others.
Is anyone else skeptical when you see sponsored webinars?
-
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
Here is my question. Why does everything have to be sponsored? Its ok to get sponsors to help out on big events where major resources are required. Here is the thing that bothers me, Why are we having simple 30 minute webinars that are sponsored by someone. Really, how much do these webinars cost to run? $200 or less. That is pennies to the big behometh that website has become. It just makes you question the quality of the material. Are they going to cater the webinars to fall in line with a vendors product in the future?
Because of their staff size, it actually costs a fortune to do anything. It takes a lot of man hours to put on even a trivial event. Add to that that they are a business and all they sell is advertising, of course everything has to be sponsors. Why would they do something for free?
I have lots of complaints but that is not one. That's just business.
Now quality control, that is its own issue.
I disagree, Scott. I dont pretend to know more about business than you, but here is my take on it.
The whole feel of SW is changing from community driven to vendor driven. The webinars should be a way to attract new members to the community. Its a small price to pay compared to other means of advertising. I can tell you from the employee side of the coin, I am very skeptical when I see sponsored webinars. We get badgered by sales people on a daily basis and dont have anywhere near the budget to get involved in every new product we see. I am not 100% sure on this, but I would think MSPs are seen as more valuable to vendors and sales people since you can push their product to others.
Is anyone else skeptical when you see sponsored webinars.
I never see any webinars so.... Lol.
MSPs are seen as competition to the vendors. That's the issue going on now. They love vendors as partners but hate them in the community since they compete for customers.
-
@RAM. said:
@IRJ said:
@RAM. said:
@IRJ said:
@Bill-Kindle said:
@IRJ said:
There are a few Spicy Peppers that avoid me now because of my participation on here. Anyone else on Mangolassi experience this?
Really?
Yeah, definitely. I dont get messages from them anymore and/or they no longer joke with me.
I thought you disappeared :-P, I was eventually going to PM you but... I started cutting my spiceworks usage back as well.... I'm no longer in the top participants per day, week, or month anymore.
I started to cut back my posting even before Mangolassi. The whole power struggle in SP soured me on the site.
Oh god I know dude don't worry. There was a post @Nic interim in the administration and moderation group that honestly just screwed everything up. @Bill-Kindle stepped down due to it, and I followed shortly after. He asked me to help GA a group and well... I started too but... we were overrode by those "above" us... but yet they were equals. He stepped down, I stayed on for a month or two, and after this recent spat I decided I'm not going to help for free, cut me out. There are hidden people who fight in the admin group that no-one knows about. There are hidden insults in the admin group that no-one knows about. Its a real ego struggle that started kicking me back.
I don't talk about moderation issues (other than the new auto moderation feature) anymore in public.
-
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
Here is my question. Why does everything have to be sponsored? Its ok to get sponsors to help out on big events where major resources are required. Here is the thing that bothers me, Why are we having simple 30 minute webinars that are sponsored by someone. Really, how much do these webinars cost to run? $200 or less. That is pennies to the big behometh that website has become. It just makes you question the quality of the material. Are they going to cater the webinars to fall in line with a vendors product in the future?
Because of their staff size, it actually costs a fortune to do anything. It takes a lot of man hours to put on even a trivial event. Add to that that they are a business and all they sell is advertising, of course everything has to be sponsors. Why would they do something for free?
I have lots of complaints but that is not one. That's just business.
Now quality control, that is its own issue.
I disagree, Scott. I dont pretend to know more about business than you, but here is my take on it.
The whole feel of SW is changing from community driven to vendor driven. The webinars should be a way to attract new members to the community. Its a small price to pay compared to other means of advertising. I can tell you from the employee side of the coin, I am very skeptical when I see sponsored webinars. We get badgered by sales people on a daily basis and dont have anywhere near the budget to get involved in every new product we see. I am not 100% sure on this, but I would think MSPs are seen as more valuable to vendors and sales people since you can push their product to others.
Is anyone else skeptical when you see sponsored webinars.
I never see any webinars so.... Lol.
MSPs are seen as competition to the vendors. That's the issue going on now. They love vendors as partners but hate them in the community since they compete for customers.
I never quite fully understood why the vendors / msp's can't be partners. You would think vendors would sell the product, then point to MSP's in a user's vicinity (if one existed close) for further support, if that makes any sense.
-
@Bill-Kindle said:
I never quite fully understood why the vendors / msp's can't be partners. You would think vendors would sell the product, then point to MSP's in a user's vicinity (if one existed close) for further support, if that makes any sense.
Why, if they sell the support agreement themselves they get to keep all the funds.
Frankly I've never understood how a company that provides end user support isn't direct competition to resellers of the product. These concepts seem in conflict to me.
-
@Bill-Kindle I'm not trying to high light any major issues, I'm trying to keep it as vague as possible as there are some people who legitimately try and some of which I consider friends.
@IRJ One thing I disagree with you on is the fact you're going to require a staff dedicated to that purpose, or take them away from their regularly scheduled duties, and you'd have to decide whose job is the most worthless you can take them off of it to set up a webinar.
-
@RAM. said:
@Bill-Kindle I'm not trying to high light any major issues, I'm trying to keep it as vague as possible as there are some people who legitimately try and some of which I consider friends.
I understand your not. I'm just saying that I try really hard to not bring it up any more as I've gotten into some heated disagreements that felt like they turned into "well you can just leave then", which I was shocked by being told that. As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that."
-
@Bill-Kindle said:
@RAM. said:
@Bill-Kindle I'm not trying to high light any major issues, I'm trying to keep it as vague as possible as there are some people who legitimately try and some of which I consider friends.
I understand your not. I'm just saying that I try really hard to not bring it up any more as I've gotten into some heated disagreements that felt like they turned into "well you can just leave then", which I was shocked by being told that. As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that."
You know, I've always loved that sentence "well you can just leave", its such a straight forward sentence with absolutely no truth behind it, you don't just "leave" out of nowhere, you will have some form of hesitation and you will have some form of resistance.
-
@RAM. said:
@Bill-Kindle said:
@RAM. said:
@Bill-Kindle I'm not trying to high light any major issues, I'm trying to keep it as vague as possible as there are some people who legitimately try and some of which I consider friends.
I understand your not. I'm just saying that I try really hard to not bring it up any more as I've gotten into some heated disagreements that felt like they turned into "well you can just leave then", which I was shocked by being told that. As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that."
You know, I've always loved that sentence "well you can just leave", its such a straight forward sentence with absolutely no truth behind it, you don't just "leave" out of nowhere, you will have some form of hesitation and you will have some form of resistance.
It's easy to say that instead of having a dialogue. It's the white flag in a discussion of giving up. People that SHOULD be booted never get booted but people who have what I view as legitimate concerns get told this if they complain loud and often enough.
-
@RAM. said:
@Bill-Kindle I'm not trying to high light any major issues, I'm trying to keep it as vague as possible as there are some people who legitimately try and some of which I consider friends.
@IRJ One thing I disagree with you on is the fact you're going to require a staff dedicated to that purpose, or take them away from their regularly scheduled duties, and you'd have to decide whose job is the most worthless you can take them off of it to set up a webinar.
True, but in the grand scheme of things its a very small price to pay for advertising.
-
@Bill-Kindle said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
Here is my question. Why does everything have to be sponsored? Its ok to get sponsors to help out on big events where major resources are required. Here is the thing that bothers me, Why are we having simple 30 minute webinars that are sponsored by someone. Really, how much do these webinars cost to run? $200 or less. That is pennies to the big behometh that website has become. It just makes you question the quality of the material. Are they going to cater the webinars to fall in line with a vendors product in the future?
Because of their staff size, it actually costs a fortune to do anything. It takes a lot of man hours to put on even a trivial event. Add to that that they are a business and all they sell is advertising, of course everything has to be sponsors. Why would they do something for free?
I have lots of complaints but that is not one. That's just business.
Now quality control, that is its own issue.
I disagree, Scott. I dont pretend to know more about business than you, but here is my take on it.
The whole feel of SW is changing from community driven to vendor driven. The webinars should be a way to attract new members to the community. Its a small price to pay compared to other means of advertising. I can tell you from the employee side of the coin, I am very skeptical when I see sponsored webinars. We get badgered by sales people on a daily basis and dont have anywhere near the budget to get involved in every new product we see. I am not 100% sure on this, but I would think MSPs are seen as more valuable to vendors and sales people since you can push their product to others.
Is anyone else skeptical when you see sponsored webinars.
I never see any webinars so.... Lol.
MSPs are seen as competition to the vendors. That's the issue going on now. They love vendors as partners but hate them in the community since they compete for customers.
I never quite fully understood why the vendors / msp's can't be partners. You would think vendors would sell the product, then point to MSP's in a user's vicinity (if one existed close) for further support, if that makes any sense.
With the ease and speed of remote support these days, why would they need an MSP to support their product? It would be cheaper and easy for them to have a centralized help desk to support it. On the rare occasion, that a tech needs to go on site, they reach out to an MSP/Partner.
-
@Bill-Kindle said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
Here is my question. Why does everything have to be sponsored? Its ok to get sponsors to help out on big events where major resources are required. Here is the thing that bothers me, Why are we having simple 30 minute webinars that are sponsored by someone. Really, how much do these webinars cost to run? $200 or less. That is pennies to the big behometh that website has become. It just makes you question the quality of the material. Are they going to cater the webinars to fall in line with a vendors product in the future?
Because of their staff size, it actually costs a fortune to do anything. It takes a lot of man hours to put on even a trivial event. Add to that that they are a business and all they sell is advertising, of course everything has to be sponsors. Why would they do something for free?
I have lots of complaints but that is not one. That's just business.
Now quality control, that is its own issue.
I disagree, Scott. I dont pretend to know more about business than you, but here is my take on it.
The whole feel of SW is changing from community driven to vendor driven. The webinars should be a way to attract new members to the community. Its a small price to pay compared to other means of advertising. I can tell you from the employee side of the coin, I am very skeptical when I see sponsored webinars. We get badgered by sales people on a daily basis and dont have anywhere near the budget to get involved in every new product we see. I am not 100% sure on this, but I would think MSPs are seen as more valuable to vendors and sales people since you can push their product to others.
Is anyone else skeptical when you see sponsored webinars.
I never see any webinars so.... Lol.
MSPs are seen as competition to the vendors. That's the issue going on now. They love vendors as partners but hate them in the community since they compete for customers.
I never quite fully understood why the vendors / msp's can't be partners. You would think vendors would sell the product, then point to MSP's in a user's vicinity (if one existed close) for further support, if that makes any sense.
They can be. But they can't all be. And defining what is a vendor and what isn't is not possible. For example, as an Elastix support company, every phone vendor saw NTG as competition. But even if we sold Avaya, Cisco would not like it or whatever.
They want to services except their own discussed.
-
@Bill-Kindle said:
@RAM. said:
@Bill-Kindle I'm not trying to high light any major issues, I'm trying to keep it as vague as possible as there are some people who legitimately try and some of which I consider friends.
I understand your not. I'm just saying that I try really hard to not bring it up any more as I've gotten into some heated disagreements that felt like they turned into "well you can just leave then", which I was shocked by being told that. As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that."
Yes. The feeling is weird. It's "like it or leave it" and then if you leave you are treated as a traitor. The cult feeling is strong.
@Bill-Kindle said:
@RAM. said:
@Bill-Kindle I'm not trying to high light any major issues, I'm trying to keep it as vague as possible as there are some people who legitimately try and some of which I consider friends.
I understand your not. I'm just saying that I try really hard to not bring it up any more as I've gotten into some heated disagreements that felt like they turned into "well you can just leave then", which I was shocked by being told that. As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that."
-
@IRJ said:
@RAM. said:
@Bill-Kindle I'm not trying to high light any major issues, I'm trying to keep it as vague as possible as there are some people who legitimately try and some of which I consider friends.
@IRJ One thing I disagree with you on is the fact you're going to require a staff dedicated to that purpose, or take them away from their regularly scheduled duties, and you'd have to decide whose job is the most worthless you can take them off of it to set up a webinar.
True, but in the grand scheme of things its a very small price to pay for advertising.
Sure IF you are charging for advertising which was the crux of the issue.
