Apple is fighting the FBI
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In court papers, the Justice Department has assured the federal magistrate judge who ordered Apple to unlock the phone that after the software serves its purpose — letting the FBI try as many passcodes as it needs to get in without wiping the contents — Apple may “destroy it … refuse to disseminate it outside of Apple and make clear to the world that it does not apply to other devices or users without lawful court orders.”
The order, signed Tuesday by a magistrate judge in Riverside, Calif., does not ask Apple to break the phone’s encryption but rather to disable the feature that wipes the data on the phone after 10 incorrect tries at entering a password. That way, the government can try to crack the password using “brute force” — attempting tens of millions of combinations without risking the deletion of the data.
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@Dashrender said:
“destroy it … refuse to disseminate it outside of Apple and make clear to the world that it does not apply to other devices or users without lawful court orders.”
Most everyone agrees this one isn't a lawful court order. So that's total BS right there.
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What this does tell us, is that Apple needs to make the lock out in firmware that they cannot update no matter what they do. Take this capability out of their own hands.
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That way, the government can try to crack the password using “brute force” — attempting tens of millions of combinations without risking the deletion of the data.
Which is hilarious, it's my understand is that it's a 4 digit pin, not a password, so there are only 10,000 option, not millions. LOL
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What's likely going to happen here is Apple is going to be forced to do it by the freedom-hating mob mentality of the public, and they will find that there is nothing on the phone and the whole thing will have been for no purpose other than to erode American freedom and protections.
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@Dashrender said:
That way, the government can try to crack the password using “brute force” — attempting tens of millions of combinations without risking the deletion of the data.
Which is hilarious, it's my understand is that it's a 4 digit pin, not a password, so there are only 10,000 option, not millions. LOL
But they can try each, many times.
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@scottalanmiller said:
What's likely going to happen here is Apple is going to be forced to do it by the freedom-hating mob mentality of the public, and they will find that there is nothing on the phone and the whole thing will have been for no purpose other than to erode American freedom and protections.
Sadly someone at my poker table last night asked if the killer was an American citizen or not. and if they were, WTF, why wasn't Apple unlocking the phone - clearly he does not understand what is at stake... and the FBI and everyone else is just waiting for this.
Apparently there are another dozen cases very similar to this one in adjudication right now. The FBI picked this one to push hard on because they knew they could get the most public support when trying to take down terrorist.
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@Dashrender said:
Sadly someone at my poker table last night asked if the killer was an American citizen or not. and if they were, WTF, why wasn't Apple unlocking the phone - clearly he does not understand what is at stake... and the FBI and everyone else is just waiting for this.
No reason to think he doesn't understand. Tons of people understand and don't care. Or worse, tons understand and see it as an opportunity to remove freedoms.
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@Dashrender said:
Apparently there are another dozen cases very similar to this one in adjudication right now. The FBI picked this one to push hard on because they knew they could get the most public support when trying to take down
terroristfreedom.FTFY
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@scottalanmiller said:
What this does tell us, is that Apple needs to make the lock out in firmware that they cannot update no matter what they do. Take this capability out of their own hands.
Then the government will probably sue them to stop it from being released.
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@scottalanmiller said:
What this does tell us, is that Apple needs to make the lock out in firmware that they cannot update no matter what they do. Take this capability out of their own hands.
Agreed - the current problem is that the phone (this old version, not sure it applies to iPhone 6 and newer) will update even when locked.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
What this does tell us, is that Apple needs to make the lock out in firmware that they cannot update no matter what they do. Take this capability out of their own hands.
Then the government will probably sue them to stop it from being released.
Much harder to do.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
What this does tell us, is that Apple needs to make the lock out in firmware that they cannot update no matter what they do. Take this capability out of their own hands.
Then the government will probably sue them to stop it from being released.
And Apple has no requirement to tell anyone that they have done it. The government would need to make a slew of new laws to try to head this off at the pass. Once it is released, too late.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
What this does tell us, is that Apple needs to make the lock out in firmware that they cannot update no matter what they do. Take this capability out of their own hands.
Then the government will probably sue them to stop it from being released.
And Apple has no requirement to tell anyone that they have done it. The government would need to make a slew of new laws to try to head this off at the pass. Once it is released, too late.
I was just about to say the same thing. Laws are the only way this could be prevented.
And if they build it into the hardware so it can't be updated via software, then it can't be changed through an software update either. -
WOW!
“If a person is an American citizen or resident, their rights may be appropriately determined by U.S. law, and it seems appropriate for U.S. law to permit the extraterritorial and unilateral reach of a search warrant to that person’s data regardless of where it is located,”
https://www.petri.com/microsoft-exec-testifies-that-legal-conflicts-are-undermining-tech-gains
Wow oh wow I don't agree. For example, the US Gov't can't force Switzerland to hand over bank accounts etc, why would data be any different?
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@Dashrender said:
Wow oh wow I don't agree. For example, the US Gov't can't force Switzerland to hand over bank accounts etc, why would data be any different?
Bank accounts ARE data.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Wow oh wow I don't agree. For example, the US Gov't can't force Switzerland to hand over bank accounts etc, why would data be any different?
Bank accounts ARE data.
Again, thank you for making my point.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
What is your stance of the UK? They are moving toward this too, if they don't already have it.
UK is in terrible shape. They will follow the US into total disaster. The spying five are all less than free and have citizenry that has never taken freedom very seriously. Societies use the word "free" a lot when they want to hide the fact that they aren't very free.
The Five Eyes are strapping their countries in for a scary ride. We're at the stage where mom is trying to strap her screaming and kicking child into a car seat... Though the twist of the story is that isn't her kid, the car is a creepy van, and mom is a previous offender. Total kidnapping of freedom and it's disgusting to witness.
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@BBigford Agreed. Here's more fuel for the fire (at least mine)
"Whoopsie!" does not cut it somehow. Best part is they don't even know what they sent because they deleted our copy right after. Criminal negligence or intent, your choice.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/spy-canada-electronic-metadata-1.3423565
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Kind of what you guys were discussing yesterday, that Apple realizes they are the weak point here, and want to fix that.
"Apple increases the security measures within iOS with every major software release, but yesterday news broke that the company is working to remove the current passcode-free recovery option from future iPhones, while it wants to begin encrypting iPhone backups on iCloud.
Why make these moves? The company has been ordered to create software to allow the FBI to access data stored on the iPhone but — were these new changes implemented — it would be unable to do that. In effect, the company has identified itself as a potential weak point in the security process because the FBI can compel it to provide data, thus, removing its ability to do that, mitigates that risk. Or at least it forces the FBI to find new ways to get inside devices."
