Non-IT News Thread
-
California wildfires: Hikers rescued as blazes rage
Rescuers in California have been airlifting dozens of people trapped by a huge fire, as crews continue to battle blazes across the state.
An initial attempt to rescue the group, stranded in mountain refuge for two nights, was abandoned on Monday night because of smoke from the Creek Fire. But helicopters were able to land early on Tuesday and are have begun taking the hikers to safety. Fires in California have burned through a record 2m acres in recent weeks. In total, these blazes span an area larger than the US state of Delaware. California is currently experiencing an unprecedented heatwave. Los Angeles County reported its highest-ever temperature of 49.4C (121F) on Sunday. Temperatures have dropped since then, but high winds are expected to fan the flames until Wednesday. -
Belarus: Nobel Laureate Alexievich visited by diplomats amid 'harassment'
European diplomats have been photographed at the home of a Nobel Prize-winning writer in Belarus after she said masked men tried to break in.
*Svetlana Alexievich called journalists to her home on Wednesday after the incident.
She is the last leading member of the opposition Co-ordination Council still in Belarus who has not been detained. The government has cracked down on dissent after protests swept the country following a disputed election. Maria Kolesnikova, one of three women who joined forces to challenge authoritarian President Alexander Lukashenko in August's vote, is in detention after she resisted attempts by the authorities to expel her to Ukraine earlier this week. And on Wednesday witnesses reportedly saw Maxim Znak, a lawyer and another member of the Co-ordination Council, being led down a street in the capital Minsk by masked men in plain clothes. Belarusian authorities said both were being held on suspicion of harming national security and destabilising the country. -
Brexit: EU ultimatum to UK over withdrawal deal changes
The EU is demanding the UK ditches plans to change Boris Johnson's Brexit deal "by the end of the month" or risk jeopardising trade talks.
The UK has published a bill to rewrite parts of the withdrawal agreement it signed in January. The EU said this had "seriously damaged trust" and it would not be "shy" of taking legal action against the UK. But cabinet minister Michael Gove said the UK had made it "perfectly clear" it would not withdraw the bill. The government says Parliament is sovereign and can pass laws which breach the UK's international treaty obligations. EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier said "trust and confidence are and will be key", after the latest round of UK-EU trade talks wrapped up in London on Thursday. -
High-fidelity record of Earth's climate history puts current changes in context
Scientists have compiled a continuous, high-fidelity record of variations in Earth's climate extending 66 million years into the past. The record reveals four distinctive climate states, which the researchers dubbed Hothouse, Warmhouse, Coolhouse, and Icehouse. These major climate states persisted for millions and sometimes tens of millions of years, and within each one the climate shows rhythmic variations corresponding to changes in Earth's orbit around the sun.
-
@JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:
High-fidelity record of Earth's climate history puts current changes in context
Scientists have compiled a continuous, high-fidelity record of variations in Earth's climate extending 66 million years into the past. The record reveals four distinctive climate states, which the researchers dubbed Hothouse, Warmhouse, Coolhouse, and Icehouse. These major climate states persisted for millions and sometimes tens of millions of years, and within each one the climate shows rhythmic variations corresponding to changes in Earth's orbit around the sun.
That is very interesting. I have long thought that humans aren't affecting the climate as much as we thought. I am sure we are a little. However, we really can't be sure how much until we have more data from the Sun. The Sun has solar cycles that it goes through. Some are shorter like every 9-10 years I think. There are longer ones though that are still being measured, such as hundreds or thousands of years long. These solar cycles have decreased periods of electromagnetism at their beginnings and increased levels at the end of the cycles. So what this means is that at the beginning more radiation (which is light in the various spectrums and ultimately heat) is getting to us from the Sun and warming the planet up and creating the hothouse effect. This eventually reverses and has the opposite effect where it corresponds to the icehouse effect because less radiation is getting through the magnetic field of the Sun.
-
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
@JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:
High-fidelity record of Earth's climate history puts current changes in context
Scientists have compiled a continuous, high-fidelity record of variations in Earth's climate extending 66 million years into the past. The record reveals four distinctive climate states, which the researchers dubbed Hothouse, Warmhouse, Coolhouse, and Icehouse. These major climate states persisted for millions and sometimes tens of millions of years, and within each one the climate shows rhythmic variations corresponding to changes in Earth's orbit around the sun.
That is very interesting. I have long thought that humans aren't affecting the climate as much as we thought. I am sure we are a little. However, we really can't be sure how much until we have more data from the Sun. The Sun has solar cycles that it goes through. Some are shorter like every 9-10 years I think. There are longer ones though that are still being measured, such as hundreds or thousands of years long. These solar cycles have decreased periods of electromagnetism at their beginnings and increased levels at the end of the cycles. So what this means is that at the beginning more radiation (which is light in the various spectrums and ultimately heat) is getting to us from the Sun and warming the planet up and creating the hothouse effect. This eventually reverses and has the opposite effect where it corresponds to the icehouse effect because less radiation is getting through the magnetic field of the Sun.
You should read the article. They go into this just in the brief...
"Now that we have succeeded in capturing the natural climate variability, we can see that the projected anthropogenic warming will be much greater than that."
For the past 3 million years, Earth's climate has been in an Icehouse state characterized by alternating glacial and interglacial periods. Modern humans evolved during this time, but greenhouse gas emissions and other human activities are now driving the planet toward the Warmhouse and Hothouse climate states not seen since the Eocene epoch, which ended about 34 million years ago. During the early Eocene, there were no polar ice caps, and average global temperatures were 9 to 14 degrees Celsius higher than today.
Basically we aren't just affecting it a little. We're the primary reason behind this recent climate shift.
-
@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
@JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:
High-fidelity record of Earth's climate history puts current changes in context
Scientists have compiled a continuous, high-fidelity record of variations in Earth's climate extending 66 million years into the past. The record reveals four distinctive climate states, which the researchers dubbed Hothouse, Warmhouse, Coolhouse, and Icehouse. These major climate states persisted for millions and sometimes tens of millions of years, and within each one the climate shows rhythmic variations corresponding to changes in Earth's orbit around the sun.
That is very interesting. I have long thought that humans aren't affecting the climate as much as we thought. I am sure we are a little. However, we really can't be sure how much until we have more data from the Sun. The Sun has solar cycles that it goes through. Some are shorter like every 9-10 years I think. There are longer ones though that are still being measured, such as hundreds or thousands of years long. These solar cycles have decreased periods of electromagnetism at their beginnings and increased levels at the end of the cycles. So what this means is that at the beginning more radiation (which is light in the various spectrums and ultimately heat) is getting to us from the Sun and warming the planet up and creating the hothouse effect. This eventually reverses and has the opposite effect where it corresponds to the icehouse effect because less radiation is getting through the magnetic field of the Sun.
You should read the article. They go into this just in the brief...
"Now that we have succeeded in capturing the natural climate variability, we can see that the projected anthropogenic warming will be much greater than that."
For the past 3 million years, Earth's climate has been in an Icehouse state characterized by alternating glacial and interglacial periods. Modern humans evolved during this time, but greenhouse gas emissions and other human activities are now driving the planet toward the Warmhouse and Hothouse climate states not seen since the Eocene epoch, which ended about 34 million years ago. During the early Eocene, there were no polar ice caps, and average global temperatures were 9 to 14 degrees Celsius higher than today.
Basically we aren't just affecting it a little. We're the primary reason behind this recent climate shift.
Oh ok, I see. I must have read it too fast then. Well I am certainly no authority but i disagree that humans are the main cause. Earth has gone through massive warming and cooling several time before humans were around. I think its more to do with solar cycles and how much radiation is getting through the Sun's magnetic field to us instead. Just my opinion though.
-
@coliver I am sure we are affecting it a little but I don't think its near as much as some think. Not sure I stated my opinion clearly or not before.
-
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver I am sure we are affecting it a little but I don't think its near as much as some think. Not sure I stated my opinion clearly or not before.
You may want to look at the mountains of research that disagree with your opinion, including the linked article. It's a fairly well known and accepted fact at this point that human activities are causing the current climate crisis.
-
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver I am sure we are affecting it a little but I don't think its near as much as some think. Not sure I stated my opinion clearly or not before.
I think there's no way we aren't affecting it likely more than anyone thinks. The things we do are so dramatic, we should all be amazed the planet is still here as it is. From deforestation to atmospheric changes, it's implausible, even without doing any research, that we aren't affecting it like crazy. We've literally altered every factor that there is from flora to fauna to light refraction. It can't be questioned that we've affected it, it's like saying the earth isn't round. Nothing on the face of the planet or the atmosphere isn't completely changed by human interaction of the last few hundred years.
-
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
Well I am certainly no authority but i disagree that humans are the main cause.
It's obviously hard to say which causes are main or secondary. But human impact is enormous and far different from just heating and cooling. If the issue was only that it was warmer, that's one thing. But it's that animals and plants that traditionally help to regulate temps are now gone shows that human impact has interrupted everything else. Might it have warmed up on its own, sure. Does it from time to time, of course. But that's separate from the fact that "humans have made it even warmer, and totally changed how the planet can respond to change."
-
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
@JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:
High-fidelity record of Earth's climate history puts current changes in context
Scientists have compiled a continuous, high-fidelity record of variations in Earth's climate extending 66 million years into the past. The record reveals four distinctive climate states, which the researchers dubbed Hothouse, Warmhouse, Coolhouse, and Icehouse. These major climate states persisted for millions and sometimes tens of millions of years, and within each one the climate shows rhythmic variations corresponding to changes in Earth's orbit around the sun.
That is very interesting. I have long thought that humans aren't affecting the climate as much as we thought. I am sure we are a little. However, we really can't be sure how much until we have more data from the Sun. The Sun has solar cycles that it goes through. Some are shorter like every 9-10 years I think. There are longer ones though that are still being measured, such as hundreds or thousands of years long. These solar cycles have decreased periods of electromagnetism at their beginnings and increased levels at the end of the cycles. So what this means is that at the beginning more radiation (which is light in the various spectrums and ultimately heat) is getting to us from the Sun and warming the planet up and creating the hothouse effect. This eventually reverses and has the opposite effect where it corresponds to the icehouse effect because less radiation is getting through the magnetic field of the Sun.
Keep in mind that other planets, like Venus, have gone through similar changes and their local factors outweigh the solar factors by orders of magnitude, even while being far close (therefore more affected) to the sun itself.
Is the sun a factor? Sure. A bit one? There's nothing to suggest it has any ability to have any noticeable effect. It's such a dramatic non-factor and demonstrably so. The atmosphere isolates us from those variations almost completely. And on Venus, to the point of them probably being immeasurably small.
It's like saying that waves we see coming from a passing speed boat could also be caused by a distant fish farting. Well, okay, fish farts must cause some ripples, but we also know that they are tiny and far away while we can see the waves originating from the obvious speed boat right there.
Human impact on climate change is obvious and observable and predictable. Sun impact is non-obvious, non-observable, and predicted to not be a significant factor.
-
@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver I am sure we are affecting it a little but I don't think its near as much as some think. Not sure I stated my opinion clearly or not before.
You may want to look at the mountains of research that disagree with your opinion, including the linked article. It's a fairly well known and accepted fact at this point that human activities are causing the current climate crisis.
Oh I am aware that my opinion is in the minority. I'm ok with that. I do understand the research, I just don't think we can have that universal opinion without having more data of all things involved. For example, the Earth has gone through the same thing climate-wise several times before humans were here. It goes back and forth between extremely hot and extremely cold constantly through its history. With that context, I just think its presumptuous to say we are mostly the reason for climate change. I might give it 10-20% but the rest of the climate change is the Sun itself in my opinion. I have not seen any research that takes this into account, it is all "the Earth is heating up and the correlation is increase in human population". I just think there are more variables in the situation.
-
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
I have not seen any research that takes this into account,
Are you sure that they don't? I get this with research a lot... people say we are missing some factor, but often don't realize that we over-accounted for that factor to have ruled it out as much as possible.
Unless you have a model that shows why this is a factor, there's nothing to account for.
-
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
Earth has gone through massive warming and cooling several time before humans were around.
Of course it has, as the article clearly states.
The point of "human caused global warming" is how it is changing the natural processes.
This science clearly denotes cycles on the 10's of millions of years. Yet, the current cycle is only 3 million years in and swinging away to a different level.
-
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver I am sure we are affecting it a little but I don't think its near as much as some think. Not sure I stated my opinion clearly or not before.
You may want to look at the mountains of research that disagree with your opinion, including the linked article. It's a fairly well known and accepted fact at this point that human activities are causing the current climate crisis.
Oh I am aware that my opinion is in the minority. I'm ok with that. I do understand the research, I just don't think we can have that universal opinion without having more data of all things involved. For example, the Earth has gone through the same thing climate-wise several times before humans were here. It goes back and forth between extremely hot and extremely cold constantly through its history. With that context, I just think its presumptuous to say we are mostly the reason for climate change. I might give it 10-20% but the rest of the climate change is the Sun itself in my opinion. I have not seen any research that takes this into account, it is all "the Earth is heating up and the correlation is increase in human population". I just think there are more variables in the situation.
Seconds later, here is research that addresses this specifically and points out that the sun influence is absolutely tiny and can't be the factor we are seeing...
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/solar_variability.html
-
@jmoore It seems that people are definitely taking this into account in the studies.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/SORCE/sorce_04.php
-
There are two things here. One is proving that humans cause the change. The other is proving that the sun doesn't cause the change.
While I think human interaction is obviously one, if not the only, factor to current warming, there seems to be a lot of strong research that absolutely rules out the sun as being a possible factor.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
I have not seen any research that takes this into account,
Are you sure that they don't? I get this with research a lot... people say we are missing some factor, but often don't realize that we over-accounted for that factor to have ruled it out as much as possible.
Unless you have a model that shows why this is a factor, there's nothing to account for.
I will have to look around. I don't have a model obviously. This is just my gut feeling that I have. venus and Mars both used to have atmospheres I believe and they were burned away by the Sun. Neither had life that we know of. While Venus is pretty close to the Sun, Mars isn't that close. While I have not read anything that seems to take this into account, I certainly do not have time to read 24 hours a day lol. So sure I could have missed it.
After reading the article you quoted, our average temperature has only slightly gone up over the last century.
From article: "Over the past century, Earth's average temperature has increased by approximately 0.6 degrees Celsius (1.1 degrees Fahrenheit)."
While that is a change, it is very little. -
@jmoore said in Non-IT News Thread:
venus and Mars both used to have atmospheres I believe and they were burned away by the Sun.
Mars had something but no magnetism so yes, blown away. Venus was not burned away, but has so much atmosphere that it shows how easily greenhouse gases can become the only significant factor. Venus is "all atmosphere."
