Has anyone used FluidServers.net?
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@Hubtech File was named download and not the actual ISO name...
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@thecreativeone91 said:
Business Grade connections are much better. I wouldn't consider a low end connection. It's not worth it. You get what you pay for in terms of connections. Fiber connections are generally far more reliable and have less latency than a Cable or DSL connection. It also it's a shared trunk in most cases with DSL/Cable.
I've seen the opposite. Business grade often has the bigger outages. The "you get what you pay for" thing isn't true in the real world. Business grade connections are mostly smoke and mirrors. They get businesses to overbuy because it sounds good. But the consumer fiber is cheaper for more. Same or lower latency, better uptime. I've never seen any business get a fiber line as good as consumer cable in the northeast even at $1,000 a month.
Do anything to avoid business connections. If it comes with an SLA, you are being screwed.
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What I've seen the most from business grade connections are days or even weeks (and in a rare care over six months) of downtime. Business grade means, normally, that you are a lone customer with little value to the ISP. When you go down, they don't care. And having that business empathy explains just about everything. You have no leverage . You just don't matter.
Consumer lines when a line goes down, lots of people are down and pissed and talking about it. It's a real outage that impacts reputation and potentially legal liability. Business class lines are promoted because they, by and large, protect the ISPs from the big responsibilities.
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@scottalanmiller said:
What I've seen the most from business grade connections are days or even weeks (and in a rare care over six months) of downtime.
I don't know what sketchy business you deal with but I've never had that happen. I've had consumer grade go down for multiple days. I've never had business fiber down past the SLAs (which is normally 1hr)
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sometimes scott lives in his own little world of absolute truths.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
What I've seen the most from business grade connections are days or even weeks (and in a rare care over six months) of downtime.
I don't know what sketchy business you deal with but I've never had that happen. I've had consumer grade go down for multiple days. I've never had business fiber down past the SLAs (which is normally 1hr)
I've had it from tons of carriers. Fiber, T lines, you name it. Since there is an SLA, there is no hustle. I've had carriers decide it was cheaper to never fix a line and take the permanent SLA penalty than to fix the line leaving customers with no way to cancel their service but getting no service.
Remember, I've working in consulting for sixteen years so I have a pretty broad view of carriers across regions and types. Every line type can have big outages. But only SLA lines have that extra protection to keep the ISP from being seriously hurt by it.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
I've never had business fiber down past the SLAs (which is normally 1hr)
I've had two fiber lines both down for over 72 hours.
I've had transatlantic lines fail because a trench pulled up a line in Egypt.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
I don't know what sketchy business you deal with but I've never had that happen. I've had consumer grade go down for multiple days.
Likewise,what bad consumer grade carriers are you using?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Remember, I've working in consulting for sixteen years
16 years ago the internet and ISP world was very different. It's not the same today.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Remember, I've working in consulting for sixteen years
16 years ago the internet and ISP world was very different. It's not the same today.
Yes, but just because I have MORE experience doesn't make my current experience less useful. And experience with things like SLAs does not change over time. Legal protection and skillful marketing is always the same. That the Internet has changed doesn't imply that the legal tactics to swindle people have.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I've never had business fiber down past the SLAs (which is normally 1hr)
I've had two fiber lines both down for over 72 hours.
I've had transatlantic lines fail because a trench pulled up a line in Egypt.
We aren't talking about international here. This is mostly related to the US. I'm sure other countries are quite different. You can't combine the statistics of both.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
We aren't talking about international here. This is mostly related to the US. I'm sure other countries are quite different. You can't combine the statistics of both.
I'm not. But you are relying on implying that my experience is out of date (due to length and volume, not a gap in it) and not from the same country to try to discredit a lot of experience with a lot of carriers and customers of all sizes in the same country as you.
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Bottom line is, SLAs, while sounding good, primarily are written by the vendors and are designed to cap their damages and liability while sounding like a great sales tool. Nothing sounds better than "we get an SLA", it actually sounds like they HAVE to do those things. But an SLA is actually a tool for the vendor to choose whether to deliver a service or pay the cost of not delivering it. It's that simple. An SLA is a legal vehicle to make it easy for them to quantify the exact cost of an outage's maximum and decide how to approach it.
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Long ago, consumer connections were shoddy. High latency, low bandwidth and reliability problems. That era is long over. The Internet has changed, as you pointed out. Consumer lines are rock solid (normally), super low latency, low cost and high bandwidth. It is the very change in the way that networks are built that has made consumer lines or near-consumer lines so good that high cost SLA lines rarely have a place.
If you must have MPLS, you have no choice. But if you are looking for Internet connections, consumer lines are generally unbeatable. With super low latency, no congestion issues and huge bandwidth there is little for a high cost line to use to compete.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
No, haven't used them. Small players scale me for hosting. Rackspace and Digital Ocean are bigger and cheaper than this.
why is anyone running their own phone system?
Well, for us, it's because bandwidth is expensive and unreliable.
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@nadnerB said:
Well, for us, it's because bandwidth is expensive and unreliable.
I think he meant for people who have moved to VoIP. I assume you aren't on VoIP at all and are on a PRI or similar?
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@scottalanmiller maybe in the US, but I'd argue that it's a bit different here.
Granted that SLA's are probably the same where ever you go, but our business grade connections are actually better than the home consumer grade stuff (BDSL). Better contention ratios and synchronous speeds are two of the differences.
Fiber and cable is typically not available to the average Joe at home, although fiber availability it has increased recently, I can't see it being as prevalent as copper in the current political climate.
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It is important to remember that ALL our telephone and IP services still run in the same conduits and hit the same exchanges that the home consumer stuff does. -
@nadnerB said:
It is important to remember that ALL our telephone and IP services still run in the same conduits and hit the same exchanges that the home consumer stuff does.
I'm sure the same case is here in the US too.
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@nadnerB said:
although fiber availability it has increased recently, I can't see it being as prevalent as copper in the current political climate.
It's only Fiber to the home in major metropolitan area's here as well. FiOS and Google Fiber aren't available many places.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@nadnerB said:
although fiber availability it has increased recently, I can't see it being as prevalent as copper in the current political climate.
It's only Fiber to the home in major metropolitan area's here as well. FiOS and Google Fiber aren't available many places.
No, Buffalo has fiber too. Oh wait, are you calling that a major metro?
Buffalo was actually the first city lit by FiOS. It was the test market because it is small but technically affluent (rich in technology, not financial rich on a technicality.)
