CloudatCost OpenDNS Issue
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
We can't all have your level of income @scottalanmiller, or get everything you get for free or insane discounts.
Not having a income to afford something doesn't entitle you to free, reduce stuff or to steal it. Seriously Go in Walmart and try that. just walk out saying it's okay I can't afford this item. That's entitlement attitude someone else has it so I should get it. It's stealing it does not matter it it's a tangible product or not.
Again, you view using a proper license in this way as stealing. I don't. Argue all you want, but the logic in my head will not view it that way. The example you use is irrelevant to this example.
A.J., this is why you fail so much, so hard, so often. You cannot admit you are wrong when you are wrong.
In the meantime, don't be surprised if people start reporting you to the BSA:
https://reporting.bsa.org/r/report/add.aspx?src=us&ln=en-us
Not to mention, but you may also be violating the TOC of your FIOS connection from Verizon since you are on a consumer plan.
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I'm not stating an opinion to whether digital piracy should send someone to jail. Nothing of the sort. Only in the US, laws rarely apply when digital domain is involved.
Also, keep in mind he is in NY, so federal and even state law do not apply. It is purely the opinion of a local judge that would determine if he goes to jail. In NY a local judge can jail you without cause. Just the way it is. It's a corrupt system, it's horrible, but it is what it is.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@PSX_Defector said:
At worst it's stealing. But misuse of a license would be better construed as breach of contract. You don't go to jail for breaching a contract, not in this country.
You can when it is piracy. Many people have gone to jail for that. You can say that all piracy is a breach of contract, that's valid. And you can say that that should never send someone to jail, and that's valid. But it's piracy. The software is being used where there is no license. A license only exists when used in the licensed way.
If that's true, how can you ever be in breach of license if there is no license if you aren't using it the licensed way? That would simply make all use outside of a license piracy and contract law wouldn't be part of it. Is that what you are saying?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@PSX_Defector said:
At worst it's stealing. But misuse of a license would be better construed as breach of contract. You don't go to jail for breaching a contract, not in this country.
You can when it is piracy. Many people have gone to jail for that. You can say that all piracy is a breach of contract, that's valid. And you can say that that should never send someone to jail, and that's valid. But it's piracy. The software is being used where there is no license. A license only exists when used in the licensed way.
Eh, I'm no law talkin' guy, but it would seem to me that even under the evil piracy banner, it's still a civil issue. People going to jail would need to be tried and convicted in a criminal court. The ol' endaround of contempt that some pull is not jail, just someone using the legal framework in a new and novel way.
It depends on how the contract is written, and what is going on with it. Again, I'm no law talkin' guy, but I think what AJ is doing most likely floats in a serious grey area. And to add to the fact that this box is in Canada, again this would be breach of contract because of international boarders. We would need a Canadian law talkin' guy, like Saul Abootman, to better answer this question with regards to MS licenses and machines located within the commonwealth.
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@PSX_Defector said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
It is stealing. It's not subject to opinion. It is a fact!
At worst it's stealing. But misuse of a license would be better construed as breach of contract. You don't go to jail for breaching a contract, not in this country.
Totally agree with this.
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@Dashrender said:
If that's true, how can you ever be in breach of license if there is no license if you aren't using it the licensed way? That would simply make all use outside of a license piracy and contract law wouldn't be part of it. Is that what you are saying?
Piracy is use in a non-contractual way. Whether you had a contract for something different or not doesn't matter.
Here is the example.... you license one copy of Windows. You install twenty. Did you "pirate" nineteen copies? Or did you breach the control of the one? If you buy one MP3, ever, can you steal all you want and refer to it as a breach of contract rather than pirating all of the others?
There is a difference, generally, between breaching a contract and doing something that you have not contracted for.
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Extreme case, but this guy got 12 years for having stolen software outside of the US (then attempting to sell it in the US.) Obviously completely different, but still just a "breach of contract" under some ways of viewing it.
Obviously attempting to sell takes things to a new level.
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@Bill-Kindle said:
Not to mention, but you may also be violating the TOC of your FIOS connection from Verizon since you are on a consumer plan.
Now here's something that I do know the law talkin' about.
No major ISP, from Google Fiber to AT&T to Comcast, allows "servers" on their residential connections. What constitutes a "server" is up for major debate. Needless to say, most don't care. They care more if you are slurping down bandwidth like me at an open bar.
And even if it was hosted on a residential connection, again, its breach of contract. The remedy from VZ et. al. would be to disconnect you. Not send you to the gulag.
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BSA claims that criminal law may apply:
http://www.bsa.org/anti-piracy/tools-page/software-piracy-and-the-law/?sc_lang=en-US
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Again selling, but seven years...
http://news.cnet.com/Man-gets-7-years-for-software-piracy/2100-1014_3-6114012.html -
What makes it piracy isn't WHERE or how you acquired it. it's using it in ways that you are not licensed too. With a proper license I could download as much music as I wanted too from torrents and be within my rights. If I don't It's illegal and stealing.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
If that's true, how can you ever be in breach of license if there is no license if you aren't using it the licensed way? That would simply make all use outside of a license piracy and contract law wouldn't be part of it. Is that what you are saying?
Piracy is use in a non-contractual way. Whether you had a contract for something different or not doesn't matter.
Here is the example.... you license one copy of Windows. You install twenty. Did you "pirate" nineteen copies? Or did you breach the control of the one? If you buy one MP3, ever, can you steal all you want and refer to it as a breach of contract rather than pirating all of the others?
There is a difference, generally, between breaching a contract and doing something that you have not contracted for.
If you own a single license and do something with that license that is outside the bounds stated in that license i.e. install it on a cloud service are you pirating it or breaking the contract? I would say you're breaking the contract, you're not pirating it. You are trying to use your ONE Legal license to do something inappropriate, but you're not pirating it.
In your examples, I of course agree with you that the 19 other servers and all Other MP3s are piracy, but the first one of each aren't, and if you miss use that one you're simply in breach of contract, not moved over to piracy.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
If that's true, how can you ever be in breach of license if there is no license if you aren't using it the licensed way? That would simply make all use outside of a license piracy and contract law wouldn't be part of it. Is that what you are saying?
Piracy is use in a non-contractual way. Whether you had a contract for something different or not doesn't matter.
Here is the example.... you license one copy of Windows. You install twenty. Did you "pirate" nineteen copies? Or did you breach the control of the one? If you buy one MP3, ever, can you steal all you want and refer to it as a breach of contract rather than pirating all of the others?
There is a difference, generally, between breaching a contract and doing something that you have not contracted for.
If you own a single license and do something with that license that is outside the bounds stated in that license i.e. install it on a cloud service are you pirating it or breaking the contract? I would say you're breaking the contract, you're not pirating it. You are trying to use your ONE Legal license to do something inappropriate, but you're not pirating it.
But you don't have a proper licenses so it's the same as using it without one. The only difference is you got the install image direct from Microsoft and activated it in an improper way.
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@PSX_Defector said:
@Bill-Kindle said:
Not to mention, but you may also be violating the TOC of your FIOS connection from Verizon since you are on a consumer plan.
Now here's something that I do know the law talkin' about.
No major ISP, from Google Fiber to AT&T to Comcast, allows "servers" on their residential connections. What constitutes a "server" is up for major debate. Needless to say, most don't care. They care more if you are slurping down bandwidth like me at an open bar.
And even if it was hosted on a residential connection, again, its breach of contract. The remedy from VZ et. al. would be to disconnect you. Not send you to the gulag.
This is great point. How many people run game servers from their homes? Tons! Is this against the TOS, technically yes, but it is the point they were trying to avoid, probably not.
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@Kelly said:
@thanksajdotcom I find your apparent lack of caring about your online perspectives incongruous in light of your proposed session at SWA2015. You might want to reconsider some of the things that are now publicly tied to your "brand".
I don't necessarily recommend people mimic how I post or all my actions. My presentation is more about utilizing professional networks to network yourself with vendors and companies. In addition, it talks about other ways to market yourself as a brand. My brand is different from someone else's. I don't claim everything I do is right or the best way. However, a lot of people from a lot of different places know my name. I will soon be published on a very major website in the IT world. While I may get criticized for some of the things I say, I've been very successful for someone my age. I've worked very hard to become so. As much as people may not believe it, I work very hard and very carefully to maintain what I've built.
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@Dashrender said:
If you own a single license and do something with that license that is outside the bounds stated in that license i.e. install it on a cloud service are you pirating it or breaking the contract? I would say you're breaking the contract, you're not pirating it. You are trying to use your ONE Legal license to do something inappropriate, but you're not pirating it.
I don't agree. You are making a license a license. But I don't believe that that is the case. A license only exists when applied properly. The license is for specific use, without that use, the license still exists but isn't applicable here. The medium and the key are in use and maybe that is causing the confusion, but they are not related. That the software is installed in an unlicensed way mean, according to my English notes, that it is unlicensed and that equates to no contract. The contract was for licensed use and would only apply when that exists, I think.
The license isn't something that exists no matter what he does. If I give you permission to go into my house and make a phone call and you steal my car while there, it's theft, not breach of contract. You can't just say "I had permission" as if it is generic. You had "permission to use the phone" not "permissions" that we "misapplied." The theft of the car is unrelated to the permission to use the phone.
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Remember you don't buy the software. You purchase rights to use the software only in the manner they determine.
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@Dashrender said:
In your examples, I of course agree with you that the 19 other servers and all Other MP3s are piracy, but the first one of each aren't, and if you miss use that one you're simply in breach of contract, not moved over to piracy.
Even if this were to apply, and I don't believe it does in any way, but let us say that it does.... the obtaining of a contract without intent to follow the contract is bad faith and nullifies the contract in most cases.
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@Bill-Kindle said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
We can't all have your level of income @scottalanmiller, or get everything you get for free or insane discounts.
Not having a income to afford something doesn't entitle you to free, reduce stuff or to steal it. Seriously Go in Walmart and try that. just walk out saying it's okay I can't afford this item. That's entitlement attitude someone else has it so I should get it. It's stealing it does not matter it it's a tangible product or not.
Again, you view using a proper license in this way as stealing. I don't. Argue all you want, but the logic in my head will not view it that way. The example you use is irrelevant to this example.
A.J., this is why you fail so much, so hard, so often. You cannot admit you are wrong when you are wrong.
In the meantime, don't be surprised if people start reporting you to the BSA:
https://reporting.bsa.org/r/report/add.aspx?src=us&ln=en-us
Not to mention, but you may also be violating the TOC of your FIOS connection from Verizon since you are on a consumer plan.
That is actually not true. I openly admit when I'm wrong. When someone wants to tell me I'm being a complete idiot or doing something bass ackwards, I always listen. I choose whether or not to take their opinions seriously or not. @scottalanmiller is my mentor, and I don't always agree with him either. But I will always admit when I'm wrong. A very good friend taught me a few years ago that when you f*** up, just admit it. Don't try to blame someone or something else. You f***ed up, just own up and take what happens. One of the single biggest and most helpful pieces of advice I've ever received. What makes me seem like I don't admit to it is that I don't back down from my opinions easily. Also, my perspective on things is often different from others, and many people view things from a strict technical standpoint that I view as a perspective matter. It is what it is.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
If you own a single license and do something with that license that is outside the bounds stated in that license i.e. install it on a cloud service are you pirating it or breaking the contract? I would say you're breaking the contract, you're not pirating it. You are trying to use your ONE Legal license to do something inappropriate, but you're not pirating it.
I don't agree. You are making a license a license. But I don't believe that that is the case. A license only exists when applied properly. The license is for specific use, without that use, the license still exists but isn't applicable here. The medium and the key are in use and maybe that is causing the confusion, but they are not related. That the software is installed in an unlicensed way mean, according to my English notes, that it is unlicensed and that equates to no contract. The contract was for licensed use and would only apply when that exists, I think.
The license isn't something that exists no matter what he does. If I give you permission to go into my house and make a phone call and you steal my car while there, it's theft, not breach of contract. You can't just say "I had permission" as if it is generic. You had "permission to use the phone" not "permissions" that we "misapplied." The theft of the car is unrelated to the permission to use the phone.
Definitely an interesting way to look at it, though I'm not sure the house stolen car thing is really on the same level.
