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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
As much as I am a nice person I don't agree with the 'every kid gets a trophy' mentality.
I don't think nice is a factor. No matter how nice you are doesn't mean that you want to reward failure. Rewarding failure is just another term for trivializing success.
I completely agree that participation trophies are bullshit. You need to know how to fail, and succeed, and should be pushed to succeed. We should not be programming kids that if they fail, everything will just still be alright. We're taking away competition and drive and spirit from the next generation, and I hate that. Glad that I avoided that mess.
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@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
As much as I am a nice person I don't agree with the 'every kid gets a trophy' mentality.
I don't think nice is a factor. No matter how nice you are doesn't mean that you want to reward failure. Rewarding failure is just another term for trivializing success.
Agreed.
I mean I'm nice in the sense that I'm friendly towards people and if given the choice to be positive or negative I try my absolute best to be a positive influence on other people. If we're talking about my child though, I have a duty to them to raise them in what I consider to be the 'right way'.
Unfortunately, you now find yourself in opposition to most of American society if you want to raise your kids the "right" way (as mentioned above, no participation trophies, learning to deal with both success and failure, etc). Now you get to be the "bad guy" for wanting to raise sensible, well adjusted kids who can deal with reality and haven't been coddled. Which is f@cked if you ask me.
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@RojoLoco said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
As much as I am a nice person I don't agree with the 'every kid gets a trophy' mentality.
I don't think nice is a factor. No matter how nice you are doesn't mean that you want to reward failure. Rewarding failure is just another term for trivializing success.
Agreed.
I mean I'm nice in the sense that I'm friendly towards people and if given the choice to be positive or negative I try my absolute best to be a positive influence on other people. If we're talking about my child though, I have a duty to them to raise them in what I consider to be the 'right way'.
Unfortunately, you now find yourself in opposition to most of American society if you want to raise your kids the "right" way (as mentioned above, no participation trophies, learning to deal with both success and failure, etc). Now you get to be the "bad guy" for wanting to raise sensible, well adjusted kids who can deal with reality and haven't been coddled. Which is f@cked if you ask me.
I was raised in a way that if I failed, I was told to figure out why, and either try again or, move on if it was a one-time thing, and learn from the mistake. I was raised that if I wanted to get ahead in life, I needed to work hard, be smart, and not just be passively accepting of everything, but if I wanted something, push for it, drive for it, and make it happen, which I know I need to tone down on in some ways (brute force doesn't work in relationships sadly). But the drive is important, because people who are successful all share certain traits at a fundamental level, and one of the biggest ones is the drive to succeed.
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@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@RojoLoco said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
As much as I am a nice person I don't agree with the 'every kid gets a trophy' mentality.
I don't think nice is a factor. No matter how nice you are doesn't mean that you want to reward failure. Rewarding failure is just another term for trivializing success.
Agreed.
I mean I'm nice in the sense that I'm friendly towards people and if given the choice to be positive or negative I try my absolute best to be a positive influence on other people. If we're talking about my child though, I have a duty to them to raise them in what I consider to be the 'right way'.
Unfortunately, you now find yourself in opposition to most of American society if you want to raise your kids the "right" way (as mentioned above, no participation trophies, learning to deal with both success and failure, etc). Now you get to be the "bad guy" for wanting to raise sensible, well adjusted kids who can deal with reality and haven't been coddled. Which is f@cked if you ask me.
I was raised in a way that if I failed, I was told to figure out why, and either try again or, move on if it was a one-time thing, and learn from the mistake. I was raised that if I wanted to get ahead in life, I needed to work hard, be smart, and not just be passively accepting of everything, but if I wanted something, push for it, drive for it, and make it happen, which I know I need to tone down on in some ways (brute force doesn't work in relationships sadly). But the drive is important, because people who are successful all share certain traits at a fundamental level, and one of the biggest ones is the drive to succeed.
I was taught the same kinds of lessons as well, but I fear this is a dying method of parenting. But I guess that will make it easier in the future for those with drive to succeed. But I also feel like society is starting to value that drive and ambition much less, which will likely have a negative long term impact.
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It's really sad how doing anything, in any kind of even close to exceptional way, is looked down on these days.
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I respect the fact that everyone thinks they are right the majority of the time. It's kind of part of human nature. The problem as I see it is too few people are open to hearing the opinions of a contradictory viewpoint. My brother-in-law is a very intelligent person, but his weakness is assuming that because he is intelligent his viewpoint must be correct. In ethics, there are always many strong principles and you can absolutely justify each of them strongly even though they are at odds with each other. I try to remember that in my day to day.
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@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
I respect the fact that everyone thinks they are right the majority of the time. It's kind of part of human nature. The problem as I see it is too few people are open to hearing the opinions of a contradictory viewpoint. My brother-in-law is a very intelligent person, but his weakness is assuming that because he is intelligent his viewpoint must be correct. In ethics, there are always many strong principles and you can absolutely justify each of them strongly even though they are at odds with each other. I try to remember that in my day to day.
I always respect that others may have viewpoints different from me. However, if I ask someone to defend their opinion on something, and becomes a personal attack against me for disagreeing with them, then I will not tolerate that. I have friends on the whole range of political viewpoints, sexuality, etc. As long as we can have that mutual respect for each other, that even if we don't agree, we still show that, I'm fine. I also get really peeved by people who assume that because I'm younger, that I somehow "lack life experience" or "just don't get it". That and the skewed viewpoint that people of my generation are inherently lazy both grind my gears...
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Just as a random FYI, one of the reasons @Minion-Queen is so awesome is for the very reason I mentioned above. Her and I have actually lost some of our similarities on things as I've gotten older, in viewpoints on various political issues, etc. However, she falls into what is, sadly, an all-too-rare category, that she holds her beliefs, but respects other people's and doesn't chastise them for being "wrong". Then again, Danielle is just awesome in general.
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@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
I respect the fact that everyone thinks they are right the majority of the time. It's kind of part of human nature. The problem as I see it is too few people are open to hearing the opinions of a contradictory viewpoint. My brother-in-law is a very intelligent person, but his weakness is assuming that because he is intelligent his viewpoint must be correct. In ethics, there are always many strong principles and you can absolutely justify each of them strongly even though they are at odds with each other. I try to remember that in my day to day.
I always respect that others may have viewpoints different from me. However, if I ask someone to defend their opinion on something, and becomes a personal attack against me for disagreeing with them, then I will not tolerate that. I have friends on the whole range of political viewpoints, sexuality, etc. As long as we can have that mutual respect for each other, that even if we don't agree, we still show that, I'm fine. I also get really peeved by people who assume that because I'm younger, that I somehow "lack life experience" or "just don't get it". That and the skewed viewpoint that people of my generation are inherently lazy both grind my gears...
In the best scenario where you both respect each others thought process but arrive at different conclusions it's very easy to have mutual respect. It's when you consider your thought process to be accurate and concise while theirs is mixed up and inaccurate that the theory is really tested.
If a good person can do wrong and a bad person can do right then we are only ever judging the actions not the person.
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@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Just as a random FYI, one of the reasons @Minion-Queen is so awesome is for the very reason I mentioned above. Her and I have actually lost some of our similarities on things as I've gotten older, in viewpoints on various political issues, etc. However, she falls into what is, sadly, an all-too-rare category, that she holds her beliefs, but respects other people's and doesn't chastise them for being "wrong". Then again, Danielle is just awesome in general.
Awww thank you.
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@Minion-Queen said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Just as a random FYI, one of the reasons @Minion-Queen is so awesome is for the very reason I mentioned above. Her and I have actually lost some of our similarities on things as I've gotten older, in viewpoints on various political issues, etc. However, she falls into what is, sadly, an all-too-rare category, that she holds her beliefs, but respects other people's and doesn't chastise them for being "wrong". Then again, Danielle is just awesome in general.
Awww thank you.
oh and of course I am awesome!
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@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
I respect the fact that everyone thinks they are right the majority of the time. It's kind of part of human nature. The problem as I see it is too few people are open to hearing the opinions of a contradictory viewpoint. My brother-in-law is a very intelligent person, but his weakness is assuming that because he is intelligent his viewpoint must be correct. In ethics, there are always many strong principles and you can absolutely justify each of them strongly even though they are at odds with each other. I try to remember that in my day to day.
I always respect that others may have viewpoints different from me. However, if I ask someone to defend their opinion on something, and becomes a personal attack against me for disagreeing with them, then I will not tolerate that. I have friends on the whole range of political viewpoints, sexuality, etc. As long as we can have that mutual respect for each other, that even if we don't agree, we still show that, I'm fine. I also get really peeved by people who assume that because I'm younger, that I somehow "lack life experience" or "just don't get it". That and the skewed viewpoint that people of my generation are inherently lazy both grind my gears...
In the best scenario where you both respect each others thought process but arrive at different conclusions it's very easy to have mutual respect. It's when you consider your thought process to be accurate and concise while theirs is mixed up and inaccurate that the theory is really tested.
If a good person can do wrong and a bad person can do right then we are only ever judging the actions not the person.
I disagree with the whole "judge the actions, not the person" because I was fed that growing up, and it's bullshit. A person is defined by their actions. I know what they're trying to say is that good people can do bad things, and vice versa. But while the idea is novel, one bad action by a good person doesn't make them a bad person, as a rule. It's more about being able to have objective, civil debates, and if you still don't agree at the end, remaining polite, pleasant and respectful of each other.
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@Minion-Queen said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Minion-Queen said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Just as a random FYI, one of the reasons @Minion-Queen is so awesome is for the very reason I mentioned above. Her and I have actually lost some of our similarities on things as I've gotten older, in viewpoints on various political issues, etc. However, she falls into what is, sadly, an all-too-rare category, that she holds her beliefs, but respects other people's and doesn't chastise them for being "wrong". Then again, Danielle is just awesome in general.
Awww thank you.
oh and of course I am awesome!
Obvi
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@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
and I'm personally against things like Affirmative Action, because I know what they were trying to do, but unfortunately it's one of those things that on paper is good but in actuality it's horrible. People are people, and it should be based on qualifications, not the race of the person or demographic metrics to meet.
Please explain on paper how it's good?
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@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
It's more about being able to have objective, civil debates, and if you still don't agree at the end, remaining polite, pleasant and respectful of each other.
So much this. That is one of the reasons I enjoy a lot of the non-IT banter on here because it lets us learn something about somebody else and not wind up hating each other at the end of the day.
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@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
and I'm personally against things like Affirmative Action, because I know what they were trying to do, but unfortunately it's one of those things that on paper is good but in actuality it's horrible. People are people, and it should be based on qualifications, not the race of the person or demographic metrics to meet.
Please explain on paper how it's good?
On paper it is supposed to help ensure that everyone gets a fair shot by rewarding companies for hiring minorities, and maintaining a certain percentage of minorities. So I see what they were trying to do. But it's horrible, and broken, and needs to go away.
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@dafyre said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
It's more about being able to have objective, civil debates, and if you still don't agree at the end, remaining polite, pleasant and respectful of each other.
So much this. That is one of the reasons I enjoy a lot of the non-IT banter on here because it lets us learn something about somebody else and not wind up hating each other at the end of the day.
I will debate any subject with anyone. You want to discuss religion? Politics? Sex? Let's go! I hate the "small talk" culture we've become where it's demonized to actually say what you think and how you feel and not just "fine, yourself?" I love deep conversations, but I demand that if we have a discussion, it doesn't devolve into name-calling and basically become kindergarten. You claim something? Back it up with evidence! If you get butthurt that I demand you legitimize your viewpoints, then the conversation has devolved. And most of the time when that's happened, people know, at some level, they are being biased/prejudiced, etc and they don't want to admit that so they say how, someone like myself, is ignorant, or blind, or brainwashed, etc. After that point, I stop respecting the ability to discourse with you and move on. You're not worth my time once that happens. Come back when you've grown up.
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@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
and I'm personally against things like Affirmative Action, because I know what they were trying to do, but unfortunately it's one of those things that on paper is good but in actuality it's horrible. People are people, and it should be based on qualifications, not the race of the person or demographic metrics to meet.
Please explain on paper how it's good?
On paper it is supposed to help ensure that everyone gets a fair shot by rewarding companies for hiring minorities, and maintaining a certain percentage of minorities. So I see what they were trying to do. But it's horrible, and broken, and needs to go away.
On paper it's racist and sexist. On paper it might actually look more evil than in real life!
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
and I'm personally against things like Affirmative Action, because I know what they were trying to do, but unfortunately it's one of those things that on paper is good but in actuality it's horrible. People are people, and it should be based on qualifications, not the race of the person or demographic metrics to meet.
Please explain on paper how it's good?
On paper it is supposed to help ensure that everyone gets a fair shot by rewarding companies for hiring minorities, and maintaining a certain percentage of minorities. So I see what they were trying to do. But it's horrible, and broken, and needs to go away.
On paper it's racist and sexist. On paper it might actually look more evil than in real life!
It's horrible, I agree. Again, I don't agree with it. I get what they were trying to do, but the disconnect between what is on paper, which isn't really good, and what's reality, which is worse, is bad.
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@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
and I'm personally against things like Affirmative Action, because I know what they were trying to do, but unfortunately it's one of those things that on paper is good but in actuality it's horrible. People are people, and it should be based on qualifications, not the race of the person or demographic metrics to meet.
Please explain on paper how it's good?
On paper it is supposed to help ensure that everyone gets a fair shot by rewarding companies for hiring minorities, and maintaining a certain percentage of minorities. So I see what they were trying to do. But it's horrible, and broken, and needs to go away.
On paper it's racist and sexist. On paper it might actually look more evil than in real life!
It's horrible, I agree. Again, I don't agree with it. I get what they were trying to do, but the disconnect between what is on paper, which isn't really good, and what's reality, which is worse, is bad.
Is it worse? What's on paper is pretty awful.
