Random Thread - Anything Goes
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@thwr said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller I know there are completely different views about unions between the US and Europe/Germany. There are some good points about them, at least here, but I don't like them for the most part. Had a really hard time to get a good paying job in the public sector because of the rules made by those unions...
How are unions seen there? Many people see them as great here, but mostly by people that are being hurt by them but don't realize it. How they are "seen" isn't what's important; how much damage they do is what matters. It's like the "punishments" of the big banks here a few years ago. The poor were goaded into voting to have the banks punished with caps for the financial crisis. But what really happened were that traders who were protecting the pensions and investments of the poor and "common" folk were basically forced to move to working for the lower paying, but still allowed to pay, ultra rich .001% (those able to invest one million or more in a single investment by law.) The poor had literally voted their own investments away but did so out of irrational malice towards the rich... but because they didn't understand anything that had happened or how interrupting capitalism works, the only people who lost were the poor! And no one felt badly about it, because they were acting corruptly and hurt only themselves. So the only people who were responsible are the ones who got hurt, and they didn't even realize that they were getting hurt because they didn't bother to apply the slightest common sense.
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@thwr said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller I know there are completely different views about unions between the US and Europe/Germany. There are some good points about them...
In the US their only purpose was to act as the law when there were no laws. Today there are laws so the benefits of the unions are gone but the caveats remain. Now they just lower pay and hurt everyone. The unions are the tools used to force jobs overseas. They are also the only legal way to bypass the minimum wage laws.
Unions basically, today, remove many of the employee protections that the law provides and take you back to the era when unions were needed. It's awful. They are a bit like organized crime syndicates staying in power by funding corrupt politicians.
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@scottalanmiller Well, at least here, that's what people are interessted in. And it isn't about just a few, it's about whole industries with millions of employees:
- 5 day work week (1959)
- Paid vacation time consessions (1962)
- 40 hr work week (1965–67)
- Paid sick leave (1970)
- 35 hr work week (attempts not yet successful 1984)
- 34 hr work week in metal industry (1995)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Metall
Green chart here is salary increase since 1993: http://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/vergleich/entwicklung1/
And that's all what a lot of people care about.
Edit: This doesn't reflect my personal opinion!
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@thwr said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller Well, at least here, that's what people are interessted in. And it isn't about just a few, it's about whole industries with millions of employees:
- 5 day work week (1959)
- Paid vacation time consessions (1962)
- 40 hr work week (1965–67)
- Paid sick leave (1970)
- 35 hr work week (attempts not yet successful 1984)
- 34 hr work week in metal industry (1995)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Metall
Green chart here is salary increase since 1993: http://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/vergleich/entwicklung1/
And that's all what a lot of people care about.
Edit: This doesn't reflect my personal opinion!
How many of those things exist without the union or how different are they?
In the US, at least, the effects of a union doing something good for workers is that the jobs vanish and the workers have to go elsewhere to get any work. When they do bad things for workers they gain control over whole regions and leave people without employment options and no means of earning additional money.
I've lived in Flint, MI... a city totally destroyed by the unions that did "good" things for the workers... until all of the workers were fired and the company left.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thwr said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller Well, at least here, that's what people are interessted in. And it isn't about just a few, it's about whole industries with millions of employees:
- 5 day work week (1959)
- Paid vacation time consessions (1962)
- 40 hr work week (1965–67)
- Paid sick leave (1970)
- 35 hr work week (attempts not yet successful 1984)
- 34 hr work week in metal industry (1995)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Metall
Green chart here is salary increase since 1993: http://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/vergleich/entwicklung1/
And that's all what a lot of people care about.
Edit: This doesn't reflect my personal opinion!
How many of those things exist without the union or how different are they?
In the US, at least, the effects of a union doing something good for workers is that the jobs vanish and the workers have to go elsewhere to get any work. When they do bad things for workers they gain control over whole regions and leave people without employment options and no means of earning additional money.
I've lived in Flint, MI... a city totally destroyed by the unions that did "good" things for the workers... until all of the workers were fired and the company left.
The sad thing is, all those union workers see is what they think is a higher pay, more benefits, when in reality, they killing the company.
Frankly, I don't know how Ford still has any factories in the US at all.
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@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Frankly, I don't know how Ford still has any factories in the US at all.
It's amazing... and very few. They rely heavily on shipping costs and tariffs to artificially keep some of the jobs making sense here.
And what the unions also leave out is that everyone in the country pays more for cars because of it. There is a reason that I can buy the same cars in Europe for a fraction of the price.
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@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The sad thing is, all those union workers see is what they think is a higher pay, more benefits, when in reality, they killing the company.
They gamble that making a few extra bucks today will be better than their kids having jobs tomorrow.
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@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thwr said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller Well, at least here, that's what people are interessted in. And it isn't about just a few, it's about whole industries with millions of employees:
- 5 day work week (1959)
- Paid vacation time consessions (1962)
- 40 hr work week (1965–67)
- Paid sick leave (1970)
- 35 hr work week (attempts not yet successful 1984)
- 34 hr work week in metal industry (1995)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Metall
Green chart here is salary increase since 1993: http://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/vergleich/entwicklung1/
And that's all what a lot of people care about.
Edit: This doesn't reflect my personal opinion!
How many of those things exist without the union or how different are they?
In the US, at least, the effects of a union doing something good for workers is that the jobs vanish and the workers have to go elsewhere to get any work. When they do bad things for workers they gain control over whole regions and leave people without employment options and no means of earning additional money.
I've lived in Flint, MI... a city totally destroyed by the unions that did "good" things for the workers... until all of the workers were fired and the company left.
The sad thing is, all those union workers see is what they think is a higher pay, more benefits, when in reality, they killing the company.
Frankly, I don't know how Ford still has any factories in the US at all.
Most of the big 3 don't have any supply side things running in the states anymore, the little they do have is all just putting parts together (it's cheaper to ship them in pieces than complete vehicles.) What little is still around are all 3rd party suppliers.
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@travisdh1 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thwr said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller Well, at least here, that's what people are interessted in. And it isn't about just a few, it's about whole industries with millions of employees:
- 5 day work week (1959)
- Paid vacation time consessions (1962)
- 40 hr work week (1965–67)
- Paid sick leave (1970)
- 35 hr work week (attempts not yet successful 1984)
- 34 hr work week in metal industry (1995)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Metall
Green chart here is salary increase since 1993: http://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/vergleich/entwicklung1/
And that's all what a lot of people care about.
Edit: This doesn't reflect my personal opinion!
How many of those things exist without the union or how different are they?
In the US, at least, the effects of a union doing something good for workers is that the jobs vanish and the workers have to go elsewhere to get any work. When they do bad things for workers they gain control over whole regions and leave people without employment options and no means of earning additional money.
I've lived in Flint, MI... a city totally destroyed by the unions that did "good" things for the workers... until all of the workers were fired and the company left.
The sad thing is, all those union workers see is what they think is a higher pay, more benefits, when in reality, they killing the company.
Frankly, I don't know how Ford still has any factories in the US at all.
Most of the big 3 don't have any supply side things running in the states anymore, the little they do have is all just putting parts together (it's cheaper to ship them in pieces than complete vehicles.) What little is still around are all 3rd party suppliers.
The big two... the third of the big three is Italian now, not American. The US only has two large car makers plus Tesla.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@travisdh1 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thwr said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller Well, at least here, that's what people are interessted in. And it isn't about just a few, it's about whole industries with millions of employees:
- 5 day work week (1959)
- Paid vacation time consessions (1962)
- 40 hr work week (1965–67)
- Paid sick leave (1970)
- 35 hr work week (attempts not yet successful 1984)
- 34 hr work week in metal industry (1995)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Metall
Green chart here is salary increase since 1993: http://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/vergleich/entwicklung1/
And that's all what a lot of people care about.
Edit: This doesn't reflect my personal opinion!
How many of those things exist without the union or how different are they?
In the US, at least, the effects of a union doing something good for workers is that the jobs vanish and the workers have to go elsewhere to get any work. When they do bad things for workers they gain control over whole regions and leave people without employment options and no means of earning additional money.
I've lived in Flint, MI... a city totally destroyed by the unions that did "good" things for the workers... until all of the workers were fired and the company left.
The sad thing is, all those union workers see is what they think is a higher pay, more benefits, when in reality, they killing the company.
Frankly, I don't know how Ford still has any factories in the US at all.
Most of the big 3 don't have any supply side things running in the states anymore, the little they do have is all just putting parts together (it's cheaper to ship them in pieces than complete vehicles.) What little is still around are all 3rd party suppliers.
The big two... the third of the big three is Italian now, not American. The US only has two large car makers plus Tesla.
Apparently I buried that memory very deep.
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Does Tesla count as a big car manufacturer?
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@DustinB3403 They will be soon. If they can figure out their supply issues.
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why's my "unread" icon not showing red with a number? Notifications are?
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@hobbit666 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
why's my "unread" icon not showing red with a number? Notifications are?
I was just going to post that.
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I just noticed that too!
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Mine doesn't show that.
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@hobbit666 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
why's my "unread" icon not showing red with a number? Notifications are?
Same issue here.
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Just checked Windows 10 feedback app, and latest post +MS reply!
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@Ambarishrh said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Just checked Windows 10 feedback app, and latest post +MS reply!
Change: The only thing more universally hated by old people than a lack of handicap spots.
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A bunch of people are being super shitty to me because it's my last week and they know they won't have to interact with me. It's sad because I treat people very well and bend over backwards for everyone but no one appreciates it here. It's sad. More of a reason for me to look forward to leaving though. Onwards and upwards
