Random Thread - Anything Goes

Quick lesson... America was a partiless Republic under George Washington and John Adams. Later, after Jefferson founded his Democratic party as a subterfuge to the current government, they would be back-labeled as Federalists, but they had no party at the time of their presidencies. Jefferson created the destructive American political party system as a means to undermine the healthy government of the time. The infamous alien and sedition acts were passed specifically about Jefferson, seen as one of the most destructive forces in the history of American politics. Possibly no one has hurt this country more. The whole concept of campaigning for office, using media to slander opponents, creating a party of people to act as a mob ... all created by Jefferson for his personal pursuits.

coliver

@scottalanmiller said:

@nadnerB said:

Yeah, straight through to the keeper.
Definitely not an American history buff

Quick lesson... America was a partiless Republic under George Washington and John Adams. Later, after Jefferson founded his Democratic party as a subterfuge to the current government, they would be back-labeled as Federalists, but they had no party at the time of their presidencies. Jefferson created the destructive American political party system as a means to undermine the healthy government of the time. The infamous alien and sedition acts were passed specifically about Jefferson, seen as one of the most destructive forces in the history of American politics. Possibly no one has hurt this country more. The whole concept of campaigning for office, using media to slander opponents, creating a party of people to act as a mob ... all created by Jefferson for his personal pursuits.

I could have sworn the Federalists were more akin to Hamilton's ideas of a strong central government. It was later taken over by the opposition party, Democratic-Republicans, which was founded by Jefferson. Although that may slightly skewed.

scottalanmiller

@coliver said:

I could have sworn the Federalists were more akin to Hamilton's ideas of a strong central government. It was later taken over by the opposition party, Democratic-Republicans, which was founded by Jefferson. Although that may slightly skewed.

The full term is Hamiltonian Federalist Which I've often identified as my party. Hamilton was the real power behind Washington, which is why Washington was so good. Adams was just an awesome guy and tried really hard to help the country regardless of what it did for him.

Jefferson founded the first party in opposition to the government. It was only after Jefferson's party was there that the Federalists became a party. In many ways, the Federalists were actually the opposition party and never got more than one president in. Calling the first two presidents Federalists was a back-naming. They would not have even known what you meant if you called them that directly.

nadnerB

Wow, your political arena is more messed u than I thought.
Format, reinstall

NattNatt

Anatidaephobia.

dafyre

@nadnerB said:

Wow, your political arena is more messed u than I thought.
Format, reinstall

Only if that means we can fire all elected officials at the national level and start from scratch with 6 year term limits for House & Senate, and continue on with the 2 terms for president.

Anybody currently holding office is ineligible for re-election after we fire them all.

Dashrender

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

dafyre

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

Their employer could hold their job for them, assuming the business doesn't go under while they are in office.

coliver

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

That's assuming being a politician is a full time job, from some of the voting records and absenteeism from congress it seems like it isn't.

Dashrender

@coliver said:

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

That's assuming being a politician is a full time job, from some of the voting records and absenteeism from congress it seems like it isn't.

Nor was it ever expected to be. I think they skip voting because they assume the outcome and don't want to be on the record voting a particular way that would give an opponent ammunition when election time comes back around.

Dashrender

@dafyre said:

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

Their employer could hold their job for them, assuming the business doesn't go under while they are in office.

Interesting - but that's a pretty huge burden on some businesses. Here, let me hold a job for 6-12 years for you, so that when you come back you won't know anything about my business at that point, so potentially you'll just sit in a corner collecting a paycheck.

dafyre

@Dashrender said:

@dafyre said:

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

Their employer could hold their job for them, assuming the business doesn't go under while they are in office.

Interesting - but that's a pretty huge burden on some businesses. Here, let me hold a job for 6-12 years for you, so that when you come back you won't know anything about my business at that point, so potentially you'll just sit in a corner collecting a paycheck.

Good point... but isn't that what the ousted politicians do these days? They go back to their law practice, or back to a mundane job... or write their memoirs.

stacksofplates

@Dashrender said:

@dafyre said:

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

Their employer could hold their job for them, assuming the business doesn't go under while they are in office.

Interesting - but that's a pretty huge burden on some businesses. Here, let me hold a job for 6-12 years for you, so that when you come back you won't know anything about my business at that point, so potentially you'll just sit in a corner collecting a paycheck.

Heck they didn't even get paid very early on. You just did it because you felt it was your civic duty.

dafyre

@johnhooks said:

@Dashrender said:

@dafyre said:

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

Their employer could hold their job for them, assuming the business doesn't go under while they are in office.

Interesting - but that's a pretty huge burden on some businesses. Here, let me hold a job for 6-12 years for you, so that when you come back you won't know anything about my business at that point, so potentially you'll just sit in a corner collecting a paycheck.

Heck they didn't even get paid very early on. You just did it because you felt it was your civic duty.

I think we should return to this.

coliver

@dafyre said:

@johnhooks said:

@Dashrender said:

@dafyre said:

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

Their employer could hold their job for them, assuming the business doesn't go under while they are in office.

Interesting - but that's a pretty huge burden on some businesses. Here, let me hold a job for 6-12 years for you, so that when you come back you won't know anything about my business at that point, so potentially you'll just sit in a corner collecting a paycheck.

Heck they didn't even get paid very early on. You just did it because you felt it was your civic duty.

I think we should return to this.

I disagree. I think we should pay these people more. In my opinion, for what it's worth, we are getting the bottom of the barrel because the smart people, who are worth more, would never get into politics. It would also make lobbying less effective.

Dashrender

@johnhooks said:

@Dashrender said:

@dafyre said:

@Dashrender said:

Professional politians is definitely part of the problem in my eye.

Though, the flip side of that is - who wants to go into politics for only 6 years, 12 if they could do both house and senate and then basically have to go back to the normal work force.

ug.. problems everywhere.

Their employer could hold their job for them, assuming the business doesn't go under while they are in office.

Interesting - but that's a pretty huge burden on some businesses. Here, let me hold a job for 6-12 years for you, so that when you come back you won't know anything about my business at that point, so potentially you'll just sit in a corner collecting a paycheck.

Heck they didn't even get paid very early on. You just did it because you felt it was your civic duty.

Well that - and, as you said, it wasn't a full time job. In fact, the writers were so worried about ensuring that congress got together regularly that they wrote it in that they were required to get together at least 2 times a year. Of course when traveling from several hundred miles away took days or more in the 1700's you can understand that.
It was expected that you continued to work your normal job. Though I can see why that's probably untenable today. So I have less of an issue with them not having a normal job while being in congress.

Now we need the opposite in place. Send the politicians home - go to your home state, connect with your constituents. I'm not sure who pays for their residents in both their home state and DC? I'm sure it's you and me tax payer (for those that pay US taxes).