At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange
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@Dashrender Yeah so what's the math on 8 * # of Users * ∞= ????
It gets expensive damn quick.
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@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@Dashrender Yeah so what's the math on 8 * # of Users * ∞= ????
It gets expensive damn quick.
He has like 90 users. So $720 a month. To hit the cost of his old phone system will take 7 years. But they never updated the old one. So if you include updates to the system then it's even further out. If you include features that are introduced to the SaaS system that you would have to pay for in the old system it's even more. It makes sense financially to pay per user for most things.
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@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@Dashrender Yeah so what's the math on 8 * # of Users * ∞= ????
It gets expensive damn quick.
So you have to look at it a few different ways.
Sure the old system lasted 30 years - will a current one? probably not, they don't make things like they used to.
Also - the old system was nearly completely self contained - it's only connections where phonelines to the LEC. That's not the case with our new needs. We need nearly anywhere access to the phone system now, so we need regular updates.This new requirement really changes the cost of the system.
The old system cost around $80K with no maintenance. over 70 users (old number) over 30 years = $3.17/u/m.
Considering no mobility, and no reporting, and no maintenance $8/u/m really isn't that bad.Now that said, I could likely have gotten a similar system to the one I'm on now, and paid hourly for maintenance as needed, but I would have had a large upfront setup fee, and my monthly maintenance still would have been $5/u/m, not including updates/upgrades, software licenses (yep, even FOSS PBX still have add-on license fees).
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@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
I generally agree with that statement @IRJ except that the long term cost of hosting isn't cost effective as the vendor can price jack the rates any time that they want.
The market will dictate the price in the long term. Microsoft is not the only hosted email provider. They alone cannot control pricing. Unless they want to price themselves away from many customers including existing ones.
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@IRJ said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
I generally agree with that statement @IRJ except that the long term cost of hosting isn't cost effective as the vendor can price jack the rates any time that they want.
The market will dictate the price in the long term. Microsoft is not the only hosted email provider. They alone cannot control pricing. Unless they want to price themselves away from many customers including existing ones.
Zoho Mail is $1/u/m for instance.
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@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
I generally agree with that statement @IRJ except that the long term cost of hosting isn't cost effective as the vendor can price jack the rates any time that they want.
They can't for us. We signed a EA and have fixed price terms for the length of the contract.
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@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
At a prior position they went full tilt "O365/SSO everything" and while it all worked with a LOT of effort the monthly cost was insane per user, something like $42/U/Month for just our 1 location of 160 people.
Globally they had over 9000, that's a huge burden.Except it's not.
- It's opex not capex, so it's not dragging down RIOC ratio's for wall street. (big in Mfg and some industries).
- It's just dumped into the fully burdened cost of an employee. If your average employee is paid 50K they probably cost another 20K in benefits, training, taxes, office space, utilities and other overhead a year. Paying $42 a user per month at that scale gets you out of:
- "owning" versions of Office Suite is great until you end up with 4 different versions of office in the office. Then it becomes a nightmare
- Managing Exchange and Sharepoint etc at scale is a full-time job. paying someone else to manage it wins vs. hiring people to do that.
- Again it's $42 per user per month. We were spending more than that per employee on drinks and snacks before COVID hit. stocking 14 flavors of le croix, and the thousands of pounds of M&M's and "the good nuts" adds up. For a company with 9000 users, something that people are spending hours a day in, that's just cheap.
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@StorageNinja said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
At a prior position they went full tilt "O365/SSO everything" and while it all worked with a LOT of effort the monthly cost was insane per user, something like $42/U/Month for just our 1 location of 160 people.
Globally they had over 9000, that's a huge burden.Except it's not.
- It's opex not capex, so it's not dragging down RIOC ratio's for wall street. (big in Mfg and some industries).
- It's just dumped into the fully burdened cost of an employee. If your average employee is paid 50K they probably cost another 20K in benefits, training, taxes, office space, utilities and other overhead a year. Paying $42 a user per month at that scale gets you out of:
- "owning" versions of Office Suite is great until you end up with 4 different versions of office in the office. Then it becomes a nightmare
- Managing Exchange and Sharepoint etc at scale is a full-time job. paying someone else to manage it wins vs. hiring people to do that.
- Again it's $42 per user per month. We were spending more than that per employee on drinks and snacks before COVID hit. stocking 14 flavors of le croix, and the thousands of pounds of M&M's and "the good nuts" adds up. For a company with 9000 users, something that people are spending hours a day in, that's just cheap.
All that easily makes sense - at that scale.
I know I don't live in anywhere near that scale, and I don't believe Dustin does either.
2/3's of our employees get paid $20K/y.
It can, and likely does still make sense to do it, spend the $42/u/m, but as is contantly talked about on these forums... most small businesses play at business, they don't really run one. -
@Dashrender said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@StorageNinja said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
At a prior position they went full tilt "O365/SSO everything" and while it all worked with a LOT of effort the monthly cost was insane per user, something like $42/U/Month for just our 1 location of 160 people.
Globally they had over 9000, that's a huge burden.Except it's not.
- It's opex not capex, so it's not dragging down RIOC ratio's for wall street. (big in Mfg and some industries).
- It's just dumped into the fully burdened cost of an employee. If your average employee is paid 50K they probably cost another 20K in benefits, training, taxes, office space, utilities and other overhead a year. Paying $42 a user per month at that scale gets you out of:
- "owning" versions of Office Suite is great until you end up with 4 different versions of office in the office. Then it becomes a nightmare
- Managing Exchange and Sharepoint etc at scale is a full-time job. paying someone else to manage it wins vs. hiring people to do that.
- Again it's $42 per user per month. We were spending more than that per employee on drinks and snacks before COVID hit. stocking 14 flavors of le croix, and the thousands of pounds of M&M's and "the good nuts" adds up. For a company with 9000 users, something that people are spending hours a day in, that's just cheap.
All that easily makes sense - at that scale.
I know I don't live in anywhere near that scale, and I don't believe Dustin does either.
2/3's of our employees get paid $20K/y.
It can, and likely does still make sense to do it, spend the $42/u/m, but as is contantly talked about on these forums... most small businesses play at business, they don't really run one.At $20k a year the business is paying somewhere near $2500 a month to employ that person. $42 is nothing out of that.
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@stacksofplates said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@Dashrender said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@StorageNinja said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
@DustinB3403 said in At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Exchange:
At a prior position they went full tilt "O365/SSO everything" and while it all worked with a LOT of effort the monthly cost was insane per user, something like $42/U/Month for just our 1 location of 160 people.
Globally they had over 9000, that's a huge burden.Except it's not.
- It's opex not capex, so it's not dragging down RIOC ratio's for wall street. (big in Mfg and some industries).
- It's just dumped into the fully burdened cost of an employee. If your average employee is paid 50K they probably cost another 20K in benefits, training, taxes, office space, utilities and other overhead a year. Paying $42 a user per month at that scale gets you out of:
- "owning" versions of Office Suite is great until you end up with 4 different versions of office in the office. Then it becomes a nightmare
- Managing Exchange and Sharepoint etc at scale is a full-time job. paying someone else to manage it wins vs. hiring people to do that.
- Again it's $42 per user per month. We were spending more than that per employee on drinks and snacks before COVID hit. stocking 14 flavors of le croix, and the thousands of pounds of M&M's and "the good nuts" adds up. For a company with 9000 users, something that people are spending hours a day in, that's just cheap.
All that easily makes sense - at that scale.
I know I don't live in anywhere near that scale, and I don't believe Dustin does either.
2/3's of our employees get paid $20K/y.
It can, and likely does still make sense to do it, spend the $42/u/m, but as is contantly talked about on these forums... most small businesses play at business, they don't really run one.At $20k a year the business is paying somewhere near $2500 a month to employ that person. $42 is nothing out of that.
Yeah I get that... but that's frequently not how finance has looked at it.. instead they look at - holy shit - it's $4200 a month for this?
but things they are a changin' so who knows what the future holds.I do really hope the change looks at it more as an employee cost and less about the $4K/m number.
