Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?
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@scottalanmiller said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
I always get the salary range even before I consider discussing the job with anyone in any real context.
Only salary really clearly informs you what the real level and expectations are.
I like that statement because job descriptions are so ridiculous, they virtually mean nothing.
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@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@scottalanmiller said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
I always get the salary range even before I consider discussing the job with anyone in any real context.
Only salary really clearly informs you what the real level and expectations are.
I like that statement because job descriptions are so ridiculous, they virtually mean nothing.
I've seen IT manager for $40k lol. But that's a fake title anyways.
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@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@scottalanmiller said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
I always get the salary range even before I consider discussing the job with anyone in any real context.
Only salary really clearly informs you what the real level and expectations are.
I like that statement because job descriptions are so ridiculous, they virtually mean nothing.
I've seen IT manager for $40k lol. But that's a fake title anyways.
Probably one man IT guy for 100 employees lol
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@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@scottalanmiller said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
I always get the salary range even before I consider discussing the job with anyone in any real context.
Only salary really clearly informs you what the real level and expectations are.
I like that statement because job descriptions are so ridiculous, they virtually mean nothing.
I've seen IT manager for $40k lol. But that's a fake title anyways.
Probably one man IT guy for 100 employees lol
Most likely.
There are also situations where there are SME's that have 100 employees, with X remote business clients that have a 2-3 person IT department employees depending upon the services they provide. If that is the case, is the person managing the other 2+ techs considered to be a manager?
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@IRJ It mattered in my most recent offer because I'm relocating from the Bay Area to the Midwest. I offered my salary up in the conversation because it was useful when discussing total compensation as it relates to what I'm currently making, and where I want to be with the position I was interviewing for. The cost of living in the area of the Midwest I'm moving to is drastically different than most larger Metropolitan areas, let alone the Bay Area / Silicon Valley. I think it helped them put together an acceptable offer quicker than if I had not volunteered the information.
I do agree with you though, your current salary shouldn't be a point of discussion or contention. If a recruiter or hiring manager were to make it a point to probe me on the topic it would be an immediate red flag.
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@RamblingBiped said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ It mattered in my most recent offer because I'm relocating from the Bay Area to the Midwest. I offered my salary up in the conversation because it was useful when discussing total compensation as it relates to what I'm currently making, and where I want to be with the position I was interviewing for. The cost of living in the area of the Midwest I'm moving to is drastically different than most larger Metropolitan areas, let alone the Bay Area / Silicon Valley. I think it helped them put together an acceptable offer quicker than if I had not volunteered the information.
I do agree with you though, your current salary shouldn't be a point of discussion or contention. If a recruiter or hiring manager were to make it a point to probe me on the topic it would be an immediate red flag.
What if you said you made $100k higher than you told them? Did they really not know the worth of the position they were hiring for? Did they know what they were hiring for?
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@RamblingBiped said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ It mattered in my most recent offer because I'm relocating from the Bay Area to the Midwest. I offered my salary up in the conversation because it was useful when discussing total compensation as it relates to what I'm currently making, and where I want to be with the position I was interviewing for. The cost of living in the area of the Midwest I'm moving to is drastically different than most larger Metropolitan areas, let alone the Bay Area / Silicon Valley. I think it helped them put together an acceptable offer quicker than if I had not volunteered the information.
I do agree with you though, your current salary shouldn't be a point of discussion or contention. If a recruiter or hiring manager were to make it a point to probe me on the topic it would be an immediate red flag.
yeah, location is huge - the housing difference is a complete killer.
3,000 sqft home in Midwest (not Chicago or Minneapolis) is $250K for a nice place (or possibly less),
but Bay area - 2.5 Million. or maybe less. -
@Dashrender said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@RamblingBiped said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ It mattered in my most recent offer because I'm relocating from the Bay Area to the Midwest. I offered my salary up in the conversation because it was useful when discussing total compensation as it relates to what I'm currently making, and where I want to be with the position I was interviewing for. The cost of living in the area of the Midwest I'm moving to is drastically different than most larger Metropolitan areas, let alone the Bay Area / Silicon Valley. I think it helped them put together an acceptable offer quicker than if I had not volunteered the information.
I do agree with you though, your current salary shouldn't be a point of discussion or contention. If a recruiter or hiring manager were to make it a point to probe me on the topic it would be an immediate red flag.
yeah, location is huge - the housing difference is a complete killer.
3,000 sqft home in Midwest (not Chicago or Minneapolis) is $250K for a nice place (or possibly less),
but Bay area - 2.5 Million. or maybe less.Chicagoland suburb, Schaumburg, 1,500sqft house = $280k
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@JaredBusch said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Dashrender said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@RamblingBiped said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ It mattered in my most recent offer because I'm relocating from the Bay Area to the Midwest. I offered my salary up in the conversation because it was useful when discussing total compensation as it relates to what I'm currently making, and where I want to be with the position I was interviewing for. The cost of living in the area of the Midwest I'm moving to is drastically different than most larger Metropolitan areas, let alone the Bay Area / Silicon Valley. I think it helped them put together an acceptable offer quicker than if I had not volunteered the information.
I do agree with you though, your current salary shouldn't be a point of discussion or contention. If a recruiter or hiring manager were to make it a point to probe me on the topic it would be an immediate red flag.
yeah, location is huge - the housing difference is a complete killer.
3,000 sqft home in Midwest (not Chicago or Minneapolis) is $250K for a nice place (or possibly less),
but Bay area - 2.5 Million. or maybe less.Chicagoland suburb, Schaumburg, 1,500sqft house = $280k
that's why I excluded chicago and Minneapolis. I'm not sure about Kansas City - I'm sure there are places where 1500 sqft cost 300K+...
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@Dashrender said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@JaredBusch said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Dashrender said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@RamblingBiped said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ It mattered in my most recent offer because I'm relocating from the Bay Area to the Midwest. I offered my salary up in the conversation because it was useful when discussing total compensation as it relates to what I'm currently making, and where I want to be with the position I was interviewing for. The cost of living in the area of the Midwest I'm moving to is drastically different than most larger Metropolitan areas, let alone the Bay Area / Silicon Valley. I think it helped them put together an acceptable offer quicker than if I had not volunteered the information.
I do agree with you though, your current salary shouldn't be a point of discussion or contention. If a recruiter or hiring manager were to make it a point to probe me on the topic it would be an immediate red flag.
yeah, location is huge - the housing difference is a complete killer.
3,000 sqft home in Midwest (not Chicago or Minneapolis) is $250K for a nice place (or possibly less),
but Bay area - 2.5 Million. or maybe less.Chicagoland suburb, Schaumburg, 1,500sqft house = $280k
that's why I excluded chicago and Minneapolis. I'm not sure about Kansas City - I'm sure there are places where 1500 sqft cost 300K+...
That must be nice.
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@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Dashrender said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@JaredBusch said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Dashrender said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@RamblingBiped said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ It mattered in my most recent offer because I'm relocating from the Bay Area to the Midwest. I offered my salary up in the conversation because it was useful when discussing total compensation as it relates to what I'm currently making, and where I want to be with the position I was interviewing for. The cost of living in the area of the Midwest I'm moving to is drastically different than most larger Metropolitan areas, let alone the Bay Area / Silicon Valley. I think it helped them put together an acceptable offer quicker than if I had not volunteered the information.
I do agree with you though, your current salary shouldn't be a point of discussion or contention. If a recruiter or hiring manager were to make it a point to probe me on the topic it would be an immediate red flag.
yeah, location is huge - the housing difference is a complete killer.
3,000 sqft home in Midwest (not Chicago or Minneapolis) is $250K for a nice place (or possibly less),
but Bay area - 2.5 Million. or maybe less.Chicagoland suburb, Schaumburg, 1,500sqft house = $280k
that's why I excluded chicago and Minneapolis. I'm not sure about Kansas City - I'm sure there are places where 1500 sqft cost 300K+...
That must be nice.
In Omaha 1500 sqft costs 90-150, pretty damned cheap.
Can you get a 1500 sqft home for $300K+ sure, with marble everywhere, granite everything, etc.
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@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@scottalanmiller said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
I always get the salary range even before I consider discussing the job with anyone in any real context.
Only salary really clearly informs you what the real level and expectations are.
I like that statement because job descriptions are so ridiculous, they virtually mean nothing.
I've seen IT manager for $40k lol. But that's a fake title anyways.
I just (and I think most people do subconsciously) consider "IT Manager" to mean "Entry Level Generalist." It's a title almost universally used for one man shops where the person is on their very first rodeo and mostly just hiring out. I've pretty much never seen a shop of any size retain that title, mostly because the stigma is so strong. If I see that title, I just assume that they are in their first posting after having interned or graduated, and probably after a year or so of mid-$30Ks doing straight helpdesk in a slightly larger firm and have graduated to the lowest rank of one man shop.
I had a friend, who we can't keep talking because she was so offensive to people in IT, who always bragged about her husband the "IT manager". The thing he did that was so brilliant and made him a tech god? He convinced the company to use email. He didn't implement the email or do anything IT, he just told them about email and got them to try it out. That was his laurels and his career had rested on it for twenty years!
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@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@scottalanmiller said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
I always get the salary range even before I consider discussing the job with anyone in any real context.
Only salary really clearly informs you what the real level and expectations are.
I like that statement because job descriptions are so ridiculous, they virtually mean nothing.
I've seen IT manager for $40k lol. But that's a fake title anyways.
Probably one man IT guy for 100 employees lol
Probably for more like 20-30.
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@pmoncho said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@scottalanmiller said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@Obsolesce said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
I always get the salary range even before I consider discussing the job with anyone in any real context.
Only salary really clearly informs you what the real level and expectations are.
I like that statement because job descriptions are so ridiculous, they virtually mean nothing.
I've seen IT manager for $40k lol. But that's a fake title anyways.
Probably one man IT guy for 100 employees lol
Most likely.
There are also situations where there are SME's that have 100 employees, with X remote business clients that have a 2-3 person IT department employees depending upon the services they provide. If that is the case, is the person managing the other 2+ techs considered to be a manager?
SMEs are never managers, it would be crazy. A manager makes way, way less than an SME. An SME would never waste their time doing that, they'd lose too much money.
If you have two people who each need 50% of a manager's time, those are some pretty worthless employees. Like completely useless. Fire everyone, hire one or two competent people with no manager.
And SME with two more junior people who all work together would likely be a lead, but not a manager.
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@RamblingBiped said in Salary, Responsibilities, or Title?:
@IRJ It mattered in my most recent offer because I'm relocating from the Bay Area to the Midwest. I offered my salary up in the conversation because it was useful when discussing total compensation as it relates to what I'm currently making, and where I want to be with the position I was interviewing for. The cost of living in the area of the Midwest I'm moving to is drastically different than most larger Metropolitan areas, let alone the Bay Area / Silicon Valley. I think it helped them put together an acceptable offer quicker than if I had not volunteered the information.
I do agree with you though, your current salary shouldn't be a point of discussion or contention. If a recruiter or hiring manager were to make it a point to probe me on the topic it would be an immediate red flag.
Talking current salary is a big tool when talking about relocation and parity needs.
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https://thenicholson.com/thinking-taking-offer-need-know/
Here is my 50+ point list of Questions and compensation related issues.
Some stuff is straight forward: but start with immortal words of Wutang Finance.
CASH
RULES
EVERYTHING
AROUND
ME
EXCEPT
WHEN
OTHER
ASSET
CLASSES
PROVIDE
HIGHER
RISK
ADJUSTED
YIELDSWhat I mean by this is cash is 100% solid comp, but other benefits (RSUs, 401K match, ESPP ) should be adjusted and factored in.
Some stuff is situational:
Support for “In plan post tax 401K to Roth” conversions may not strike your fancy, but I’m going to dodge a boat load of taxes over the years using this ”One trick several senators hate!”.
