Can Windows 7 Still Upgrade to Windows 10
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller I read the "little text" right from their website and there is no statement about who can use the tool to upgrade to Windows 10 there either.
I would be incredibly surprised if there was some hidden statement and MS is just collecting the information to sue everyone and their cousins all at once.
Right, it's a super plan "here is your Windows 10 upgrade" tool, that lists no restrictions, and when installed checks your license and says that you are licensed. Since there is no "work around" done, MS has verified that it is legal.
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The Windows 10 EULA even has the verbage for having gotten the software directly from MS without there having been a sale involved. The EULA definitely is written, in its latest form from June 2018, to support the MCT from Windows 7 path.
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@DustinB3403 : So, hold on.. you're saying that Microsoft, who makes the product, and says you're wrong on these pages :
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-end-of-life-support-information
AND
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4026456/windows-how-to-get-windows-10
AND
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/12435/windows-10-upgrade-faqIs, in fact, incorrect?
@Dashrender : The actual license audits requested by Microsoft are performed by the larger accounting firms. I know of a local company that was audited by KPMG at the behest of Microsoft to perform an LLC audit. Microsoft provided all of the license information (i.e. activation dates, rearms, etc.) to them for the purpose of this investigation.
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@scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
Here's another thing that clearly states you must have a valid Windows 10 license to use the MCT. I know just because their website says it that it doesn't necessarily mean it's true, but everything I can find says you need a valid license.
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@scottalanmiller
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm
a. License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time, so long as you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the software. -
Unless someone provides "in path" documentation that would supersede this, here is the section that makes the Windows 7 to Windows 10 upgrade fully legal (in conjunction with the MCT acquisition, the key verification, activation, etc. all being approved by MS)...
"Installation and Use Rights.
a. License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time, so long as you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
Microsoft provides the license for use here. And stipulates how you could have violated it. Once you accept the EULA, and haven't tricked MS, they've legally agreed to its use. Seems really clear. And not just clear in general, but they even state that non-genuine keys that would trick it into accepting the install aren't valid, implying that genuine ones are.
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Now the one thing that may tie @WrCombs bosses / business hands is if Aloha themselves stipulated that support system specifically as it was sold, and that without authorization from Aloha or a purchased upgrade can they upgrade a client systems, be it a bug patch, OS upgrade, security fix or whatever.
But nothing has been stated to explain that, which I doubt it could be stated as @WrCombs isn't the person in the know.
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@manxam said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 : So, hold on.. you're saying that Microsoft, who makes the product, and says you're wrong on these pages :
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-end-of-life-support-information
AND
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4026456/windows-how-to-get-windows-10
AND
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/12435/windows-10-upgrade-faq
Is, in fact, incorrect?Out of date, yes. Random FAQs don't supersede the license.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Here's another thing that clearly states you must have a valid Windows 10 license to use the MCT
Yes, and Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 qualify as licenses for that. Windows 10 is just Windows rebranded, it's not a separate product. Those are, and always have been valid licenses.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right...
Non-genuine was and has never been valid for upgrade to Windows 10, period.
I straight up skipped Windows 8 and jumped to Windows 10 with my hacked Windows 7 ISO, and got Windows 10 for free too at the time (I've since got a new system but w/e). Doesn't make my hacked ISO legit and valid.
Have an CoA or PoP means you're allowed to install Windows 10 on the computer that the license is applied too.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right, and if you have a valid Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 install then you have the valid license to use the MCT. They state that in multiple places that you linked.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right, and if you have a valid Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 install then you have the valid license to use the MCT. They state that in multiple places that you linked.
Every link I posted said that the upgrade needs to be licensed... Not that those previous versions are automatic licenses to Win10
One of them very specifically states that the free upgrade offer ended in 2016 and that you need to purchase a new license
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
I believe you're misinterpreting... I read this as if you're updating or upgrading non-genuine software WITH SOFTWARE FROM MICROSOFT (read MCT), you're not doing it right... You need a valid license to use MCT. Period.
Right, and if you have a valid Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 install then you have the valid license to use the MCT. They state that in multiple places that you linked.
Every link I posted said that the upgrade needs to be licensed... Not that those previous versions are automatic licenses to Win10
That is where you get your Windows 10 license from, Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 are all valid licenses to install Windows 10 for free. Period.
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@manxam said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
So, hold on.. you're saying that Microsoft, who makes the product, and says you're wrong on these pages :
This is normal business. We've been explaining this one for years. MS wants to get everyone on to Windows 10, but they want to convince as many people to pay for it as they can, while not actually holding anyone back.
Those pages are just FAQs and have no legal standing. When you install Windows 10, or acquire it or whatever, you are not directed to those pages. You are, instead, presented with information about upgrading from Windows 7 (or later) without restriction, and then granted a license for use. It's fully legal and clear.
It's standard for businesses of all types to make things sound like they are not allowed to gently "encourage usage" in certain ways, while not requiring it. Companies do this in employment agreements all of the time.
Bottom line, FAQs are not legal, binding, or necessarily up to date or applicable. They are useful, but in a legal question like this, they aren't part of the "path of acquisition" and using Google to find the "rules" isn't a legal thing.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Every link I posted said that the upgrade needs to be licensed... Not that those previous versions are automatic licenses to Win10
But it is licensed. Some say that Windows 7 counts, some just leave it to the other documents. But none say, or even imply, that it doesn't count. The EULA very, very clearly implies that it does count as they take the time to point out that non-genuine upgrades do not count... only necessary if genuine ones do count.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
One of them very specifically states that the free upgrade offer ended in 2016 and that you need to purchase a new license
Not a single one of those is part of the license path, though. They aren't tied to the MCT download, nor do the upgrade, nor to the license or EULA. They don't apply to the situation we are discussing.
One program is known to have ended in 2016. It's also known that other options carried on after that. So that anything ended in the past that we aren't discussing here isn't applicable. But does show that whatever resource that that is isn't talking about what we are talking about.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Every link I posted said that the upgrade needs to be licensed... Not that those previous versions are automatic licenses to Win10
But it is licensed. Some say that Windows 7 counts, some just leave it to the other documents. But none say, or even imply, that it doesn't count. The EULA very, very clearly implies that it does count as they take the time to point out that non-genuine upgrades do not count... only necessary if genuine ones do count.
Right, my hacked windows 7 ISO and product key, weren't genuine, but I was still able to upgrade to Windows 10 because MS had no way to prevent it. As far as the system knew I was genuine. But any licensed computer with Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 is allowed to upgrade to Windows 10 for free.
But if you want to give MS some money for an additional license, they aren't going to stop you. Especially because they sell licenses for Windows 10 and would assume that people may build their own new systems that don't include a previously purchased license.
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Basically, the more we dig in, the more it looks like MS did what was assumed that they were going to do all along....
They offered staggered levels of obvious, free upgrades to get as many people off of old versions as possible. They included "end dates" to up the pressure to get people to move. But they kept offering new paths after the old ones expired ... because their goal has never changed, to end people on old versions.
MS keeps acting predictably and rationally by offering free updates, adding expiration dates, then adding new paths after those expire. It looks like they had a big public "program" for updates that expired in 2016, then a well known technical means of getting it by enabling any assistive feature by 2018, then simply and quietly making the upgrade free across the board after that point.
All stuff that we were talking about in 2015 that we expected them to do because it is what makes logical business sense for them. With the end of Windows 7 looming, the last thing that they want is people going to Linux.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
One of them very specifically states that the free upgrade offer ended in 2016 and that you need to purchase a new license
Not a single one of those is part of the license path, though. They aren't tied to the MCT download, nor do the upgrade, nor to the license or EULA. They don't apply to the situation we are discussing.
One program is known to have ended in 2016. It's also known that other options carried on after that. So that anything ended in the past that we aren't discussing here isn't applicable. But does show that whatever resource that that is isn't talking about what we are talking about.
It is relevant, because if a Windows 7 license is not actually a valid Windows 10 license than the EULA clearly states that using MCT doesn't magically make it legit. This could easily end if one of you would post something clearly stating that Windows 7, 8, 8.1 licenses are also valid as Windows 10 licenses.
