Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?
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@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
but it was just over 5 years old and died last year.
That's pretty young for a laptop. My $1100 HP Folio 13 is still going strong from 2012.
I do have a laptop from 2012'ish also that still function - but I didn't would say - going strong.. it sucks to use sooo slow.
It's getting slower, but it is on 1903 and performing quite well. Except for games, of course, the GPU is useless.
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@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
AMD machines in general have far less support.
Software is wonky at best.What does this mean? What "support" do you need for a CPU? None, that's not a thing really. And software? You don't install software for a CPU, not for a long time. You just install the OS and you are done.
I got side tracked and started thinking about their graphics drivers.
Oh okay, yes, those suck. But Intel's GPUs are completely useless, too. Like, SO BAD.
Yes, in the GPU world, AMD has issues and Nvidia is trouncing them. Intel has effectively just given up there and doesn't even play any more. With RFX, Nvidia hasn't just outperformed AMD, they've left them in the dust.
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@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
No, they are NOT faster and have NOT been faster since the early 2000s when they first came out with their quad core.
Actually, AMD was faster in the 32bit era, their AthlonXP was the fastest desktop proc at the end of that era. Intel had completely fallen on their faces with their useless Pentium IV platform and couldn't recover. And they had dropped the Pentium III and couldn't spin it back up fast enough to compete.
If you remember, AMD went into the 64bit era having been crushing Intel, then destroying them by making fast 64bit while Intel was still pushing the Pentium IV 32bit, then attempting to save face by re-releasing their Pentium III and calling it a new name: Core. They failed and didn't sell well and the performance was pathetic.
AMD then created the Opteron market and destroyed Intel in performance all through the 2000s. Not by small amounts. We are talking huge amounts here. AMD totally owned the server market for most of that decade.
Then around 2009 AMD faltered and Intel got their game together and started making new designs that were 64bit native and accepted that Itanium had failed and they had to just play AMD's game. They did so really well and Intel ruled the roost for about 8-10 years. AMD had very little to show. I think you are remembering that era and confusing it with the decade leading up to it.
Then around a year ago AMD came out with new cores that kept pace with Intel, but at lower cost. And now, a few weeks ago, blew them away with new designs that are significantly outperforming what they had just a few months ago.
YES, now this I absolutely agree with. But they've lagged behind since early 2000.
Intel > AMD for the time being.
I believe though, Ryzen 4 will blow Intel out of the water. Intel is stuck right now until 2021, they can't get the 7nm. -
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
AMD machines in general have far less support.
Software is wonky at best.What does this mean? What "support" do you need for a CPU? None, that's not a thing really. And software? You don't install software for a CPU, not for a long time. You just install the OS and you are done.
I got side tracked and started thinking about their graphics drivers.
Oh okay, yes, those suck. But Intel's GPUs are completely useless, too. Like, SO BAD.
Yes, in the GPU world, AMD has issues and Nvidia is trouncing them. Intel has effectively just given up there and doesn't even play any more. With RFX, Nvidia hasn't just outperformed AMD, they've left them in the dust.
No, I completely disagree, Intel's onboard graphics can run most modern games. Tens of thousands of games and they run them very well. (Obviously they can't run games on Ultra or Extreme or whatever term the particular game uses to describe dialing it up)
I really like AMD, I always have. But from my perspective, a gaming one, they don't have my vote.
Reliability perspective? Well I've had horrible luck with the damned things, so I would still go Intel. -
I assume when you guys are talking about AMD vs Intel video - you're talking the embedded video chip in the processor?
That you're not talking about ATI vs Intel? -
@Dashrender Yes lol.
Oh god, the Vega 11........garbage. -
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
Now, multi core is faster if you actually look at benchmarks, but that's it. Is that insignificant? NO of course not, but overall, Intel is easily much faster.
Why do you feel that it isn't significant? You say "no of course not", but I say "obviously". Threads are a massive factor. About the only common workload that doesn't leverage them is some limited gaming, and even that is normally dramatically threaded today. If you are playing legacy games from say 2008, yes, the Intel is better suited for that. But either is SO fast in that case, doesn't really matter.
But for current stuff, they are written for the future where threading is everything. Pretty much everything is designed around leveraging threading today. It has to be, no matter what platform you are on, threading is the only significant way to get more power from your silicon. Writing stuff that isn't designed around the assumption of large threading models means that you have no access to the CPU's power.
I'm a pretty basic desktop user, and my one second snapshot shows 36 threads actively using the CPU. Threading is what allows desktops to provide the "snappy" feeling that most people care about most. High single thread performance is what allows single operations to be performed faster. Both have a place. But the single thread model is more often useful either in gaming, super niche calculations, or in servers. Whereas the large thread pool is more useful to business desktop usage where many, snappy apps are the most common priority.
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@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
I assume when you guys are talking about AMD vs Intel video - you're talking the embedded video chip in the processor?
That you're not talking about ATI vs Intel?ATI is AMD. AMD's integrated chips are still ATI. My AMD proc has a cheap ass Radeon on board. It works, it's nothing special. But it destroys the Intel on board my other machine has (at a lower price.)
AMD doesn't do a non-ATI embedded option (that I've seen.)
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@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
I assume when you guys are talking about AMD vs Intel video - you're talking the embedded video chip in the processor?
That you're not talking about ATI vs Intel?ATI is AMD. AMD's integrated chips are still ATI. My AMD proc has a cheap ass Radeon on board. It works, it's nothing special. But it destroys the Intel on board my other machine has (at a lower price.)
AMD doesn't do a non-ATI embedded option (that I've seen.)
They now have embedded Vega graphics in their procs. Last I've heard, Vega 11 is the latest, that was a year or so ago.
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@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
No, I completely disagree, Intel's onboard graphics can run most modern games.
It CAN run them, but not in the ballpark of an AMD or Nvidia. I have it and it breaks everything. So buggy and slow.
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@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
I really like AMD, I always have. But from my perspective, a gaming one, they don't have my vote.
But it's really a discussion on business computing, not gaming.
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@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@Dashrender said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
I assume when you guys are talking about AMD vs Intel video - you're talking the embedded video chip in the processor?
That you're not talking about ATI vs Intel?ATI is AMD. AMD's integrated chips are still ATI. My AMD proc has a cheap ass Radeon on board. It works, it's nothing special. But it destroys the Intel on board my other machine has (at a lower price.)
AMD doesn't do a non-ATI embedded option (that I've seen.)
They now have embedded Vega graphics in their procs. Last I've heard, Vega 11 is the latest, that was a year or so ago.
Yeah, and it's not so good. But the Vega is a Radeon.
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I have an AMD with the Vega. No issues, but, not that glamorous either.
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@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
No, I completely disagree, Intel's onboard graphics can run most modern games.
It CAN run them, but not in the ballpark of an AMD or Nvidia. I have it and it breaks everything. So buggy and slow.
Yeah.........On a 2012 machine......I'm not surprised. There has been significant improvements in Intels onboard graphics. I've tested it on a Surface Pro 5 (Well the spiritual five when they skipped adding a number. Technically SP5 but.......not or something? Microsoft is so weird sometimes...)
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@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
No, I completely disagree, Intel's onboard graphics can run most modern games.
It CAN run them, but not in the ballpark of an AMD or Nvidia. I have it and it breaks everything. So buggy and slow.
Yeah.........On a 2012 machine......I'm not surprised. There has been significant improvements in Intels onboard graphics. I've tested it on a Surface Pro 5 (Well the spiritual five when they skipped adding a number. Technically SP5 but.......not or something? Microsoft is so weird sometimes...)
No, that's a separate discussion. I have an Intel i7 Sixth Gen machine and the Intel graphics on that are so bad, but I can't disable them. Totally buggy and cause endless problems. It's bad enough that it makes the CPU itself problematic because it's unstable because of the software GPU that is forced on you.
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@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
In what market though? Surely not the consumer market. And most servers I've at least seen are always Intel. Perhaps the east coast is different?
The ENTIRE market.
I'm very happy to see AMD catching up. https://marketrealist.com/2019/05/amd-is-set-to-gain-cpu-unit-market-share-from-intel-in-2019/
They finally will a vastly significant part of the market share within two years. -
Intel CPUs are also significantly better for mobile devices and generate less heat.
Ugh I'm starting to sound like a fan boy, I'm certainly not. I don't care which I use, but I do care which to buy depending on purpose. -
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
No, I completely disagree, Intel's onboard graphics can run most modern games.
It CAN run them, but not in the ballpark of an AMD or Nvidia. I have it and it breaks everything. So buggy and slow.
Yeah.........On a 2012 machine......I'm not surprised. There has been significant improvements in Intels onboard graphics. I've tested it on a Surface Pro 5 (Well the spiritual five when they skipped adding a number. Technically SP5 but.......not or something? Microsoft is so weird sometimes...)
No, that's a separate discussion. I have an Intel i7 Sixth Gen machine and the Intel graphics on that are so bad, but I can't disable them. Totally buggy and cause endless problems. It's bad enough that it makes the CPU itself problematic because it's unstable because of the software GPU that is forced on you.
I'm not surprised again.
Though what did Radeon have at that time period...If you take your exact machine and compare that to an equally specced AMD machine, the intel will perform better graphically, guaranteed. -
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
No, I completely disagree, Intel's onboard graphics can run most modern games.
It CAN run them, but not in the ballpark of an AMD or Nvidia. I have it and it breaks everything. So buggy and slow.
Yeah.........On a 2012 machine......I'm not surprised. There has been significant improvements in Intels onboard graphics. I've tested it on a Surface Pro 5 (Well the spiritual five when they skipped adding a number. Technically SP5 but.......not or something? Microsoft is so weird sometimes...)
No, that's a separate discussion. I have an Intel i7 Sixth Gen machine and the Intel graphics on that are so bad, but I can't disable them. Totally buggy and cause endless problems. It's bad enough that it makes the CPU itself problematic because it's unstable because of the software GPU that is forced on you.
I'm not surprised again.
Though what did Radeon have at that time period...If you take your exact machine and compare that to an equally specced AMD machine, the intel will perform better graphically, guaranteed.wow - just not a fan of ATI I take it?
I loved ATI over nVidea back when I used to build Gaming PCs in the early 2000's.
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@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@scottalanmiller said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
@kamidon said in Spec'ing a new computer from Dell or?:
No, I completely disagree, Intel's onboard graphics can run most modern games.
It CAN run them, but not in the ballpark of an AMD or Nvidia. I have it and it breaks everything. So buggy and slow.
Yeah.........On a 2012 machine......I'm not surprised. There has been significant improvements in Intels onboard graphics. I've tested it on a Surface Pro 5 (Well the spiritual five when they skipped adding a number. Technically SP5 but.......not or something? Microsoft is so weird sometimes...)
No, that's a separate discussion. I have an Intel i7 Sixth Gen machine and the Intel graphics on that are so bad, but I can't disable them. Totally buggy and cause endless problems. It's bad enough that it makes the CPU itself problematic because it's unstable because of the software GPU that is forced on you.
I'm not surprised again.
Though what did Radeon have at that time period...If you take your exact machine and compare that to an equally specced AMD machine, the intel will perform better graphically, guaranteed.That's quite recent. Like maybe three years old. AMD had some pretty good stuff at that point.
