Solved Email server options
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@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued.
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@Pete-S said in Email server options:
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.This is very true, but there is a still bigger picture that has to be considered. If you are in the US, for example, the cost of liability on old emails can be insanely high. Having 10TB of data isn't just a pain to back up, but getting a legal hold put on that and paying lawyers to go through by hand will be crippling. And as mailboxes get bigger, we risk people becoming inefficient and not being able to find the emails that they need. There has to be a balance.
IT gets caught up in "storage costs money" and operations gets caught up in "I don't want to have to do anything to organize myself" and there needs to be someone actively looking at the holistic situation and determining what makes sense considering storage, backups, legal liabilities, efficiency, business needs, etc.
Does keeping a mailbox small really use more resources, or does it just make you do a little all of the time? There are a lot of things to consider. I don't need a large mailbox, and it is keeping my mailbox small that keeps me efficient. As a businessman, I want my people to have small mailboxes to keep them from losing things and wasting time looking for stuff because they stored it in email instead of somewhere useful.
So while it might sound like big mailboxes is cheap because people are expensive, that can also be the reason why small mailboxes are cheap, even when storage isn't part of the equation.
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Seems like @Dashrender really like mailcow =P
What does everyone else think?
BTW, I forgot to setup the DNS records, for auto discover, so if you try to setup a phone right now it might not auto discover the server until DNS updates. In any case, you can give your phone the server URL and it will work.
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
Anyone still interest, the offer stands
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
I think you need to run an ML mail service for everyone.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
What does everyone else think?
So far I am really liking it. Want to make one for @romo and @valentina too?
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@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Curtis said in Email server options:
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
I think you need to run an ML mail service for everyone
Thinking about it. Just not sure I could do it for free.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Curtis said in Email server options:
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
I think you need to run an ML mail service for everyone
Thinking about it. Just sure I could do it for free.
I bet you'd only be looking at 20-30 people seriously interested. Would be pretty cool, though.
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Mailcow offers domain admins as well, so everyone could still have complete control of their domain.
Create accounts, alias, etc.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
Mailcow offers domain admins as well, so everyone could still have complete control of their domain.
Create accounts, alias, etc.
Really? That's really nice!
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued.
Yep on every account. Plus - it's been that way since day one for those employees - so they are forced to keep their email accounts clean from the get go... they won't be spending a bunch of time later deleting shit out - read it and delete it... done.
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
Seems like @Dashrender really like mailcow =P
What does everyone else think?
BTW, I forgot to setup the DNS records, for auto discover, so if you try to setup a phone right now it might not auto discover the server until DNS updates. In any case, you can give your phone the server URL and it will work.
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
Anyone still interest, the offer stands
I still need to hook an Outlook client to it, and a phone.. but the web interface - the fact that it asked to integrate into the MailTO right click option was super awesome!!! Hell OWA doesn't even do that.
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@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
You are doing something wrong. Disks are not that expensive.
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
You are doing something wrong. Disks are not that expensive.
Maybe SSDs in RAID?
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Samsung EVO 970 1TB for $250. If you want 4TB of usable and bought 8 of these for RAID 10 it would be $2,000.
So if you are getting enterprise drives from the server vendor themselves, I could see $3,200.
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Now if you did RAID 5 you'd only need five of them. So more like $1,250.
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
You are doing something wrong. Disks are not that expensive.
Here is the line item from Yonah
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@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
Now if you did RAID 5 you'd only need five of them. So more like $1,250.
Here's the RAID 5 SSD option
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I suppose you're both going to tell me that I don't need to use enterprise class drives... or that PCM is screwing me.
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@Dashrender said in Email server options:
I suppose you're both going to tell me that I don't need to use enterprise class drives... or that PCM is screwing me.
Nope, I think Jared is just not considering the real world cost of SSD storage with enterprise support. I think he likely was thinking of non-SSD storage for email. That is what might make more sense, email is rarely that sensitive to throughput for its core storage.
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@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
I suppose you're both going to tell me that I don't need to use enterprise class drives... or that PCM is screwing me.
Nope, I think Jared is just not considering the real world cost of SSD storage with enterprise support. I think he likely was thinking of non-SSD storage for email. That is what might make more sense, email is rarely that sensitive to throughput for its core storage.
Jared is just thinking that @Dashrender does not know what he is buying.
The listed drive is a 2.5", 12GB/s, 1TB, 7.2k SAS (but I assume NL SAS because 7.2K) drive.
Xbyte has that same "Dell" drive for $249.
Does he need 12GB/s? Does his RAID card backplane support that?
Why get 1TB drives in the first place? Very often that is more expensive than larger drives.
Last time I bought new drives, I requested 1TB, but the VAR said, that 2TB were cheaper, so I bought those.
