Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Been there, done that. Went "by the book" and escaped a job where nearly everyone stayed "forever" because they were threatened that if they left that they would destroy their lives (and often did.)
Yup, I know a few of the folks who left that horrid place. That's also the reason I'll be avoiding MSPs like the plague
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 so he walks out the door, and the employer refuses to pay what is owed for the last month. And there is no regulation for such a case? Damn, I wouldn't want to live in a place where this is the norm.
He walks out the door, but they must pay him for every day he worked, up until the point that they decided to fire him for not showing up and notified him of such (which can all be the same day, of course), and they must pay him roughly on time (you get like a week extra for processing a final check. You can never withhold pay, no matter the situation, ever. It's sacred.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
No. . .
But he can walk and gets paid for what he'd worked.
Who said anything about him not being paid for the time he's already worked?
If there is no regulation, who enforces the employer to pay?
Federal. Once pay is earned, it is yours. Not paying it is theft.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
This is just something that is not typical in the US.
I've worked for several US companies, but outside the US, and pretty much everywhere there is a version of what @Jimmy9008 described. My experience is in Ireland, UK, Russia, Israel and several Canadian provinces.
That is likely because the location you are in require it, not the US company.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
No, we have nothing like that. You earn money as you work, nothing more, nothing less. Work one day, get paid one day. No exceptions. In the US it is as simple as can be, which is really probably the best system. You work, you get paid. You don't work, you don't get paid. There is no attempt to manipulate complex hiring and firing laws. It's pay in exchange for work. but that pay is extremely highly protected.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
There could be, usually those are written into a contract. But those benefits do not always exist.
Extremely rare, in fact. I've worked around fifty or sixty jobs at least, never once have I had one. Not when I was an hourly blue collar worker, but when I was an executive.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
There could be, usually those are written into a contract. But those benefits do not always exist.
Guess I've been terribly spoiled by good conditions throughout my career then
I've only realised not all companies hand out company vehicles to all employees on my 16th year in ITWhy would you get a car working in IT? When do you need to drive anywhere? I don't even need a car to drive to work, let alone anywhere else.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
In the UK it depends. If you are sacked due to gross misconduct you wont get any money. If you are made redundant, you will get a set amount based on length of employment (could be more, but by law its at least that set amount), and if you take voluntary redundancy, you get a package as setup by the former employer... so, it depends.
If you signed a contract for 3 months notice, usually you can negotiate to leave early if you really want. "Im going to give two months". But, if you just walk out you didnt mean your contractual obligations and that could have ramifications.
In the US, one is called being fired and one being laid off. Laid off = made redundant.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
In the UK it depends. If you are sacked due to gross misconduct you wont get any money. If you are made redundant, you will get a set amount based on length of employment (could be more, but by law its at least that set amount), and if you take voluntary redundancy, you get a package as setup by the former employer... so, it depends.
If you signed a contract for 3 months notice, usually you can negotiate to leave early if you really want. "Im going to give two months". But, if you just walk out you didnt mean your contractual obligations and that could have ramifications.
In the US, one is called being fired and one being laid off. Laid off = made redundant.
Yep, here being laid off will see you get redundancy pay, being fired wont (unless you have a special contract).
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Why would you get a car working in IT? When do you need to drive anywhere? I don't even need a car to drive to work, let alone anywhere else.
In Israel, it was a standard benefit for all IT related employees. The idea was that anything in IT is considered a creative job, so if you suddenly have a great idea in the middle of the night, you just drive to the office and get to work on it (no remote jobs back in the 90s). The perk stuck around until it got taxed out of existence in 2007-2010-ish.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Why would you get a car working in IT? When do you need to drive anywhere? I don't even need a car to drive to work, let alone anywhere else.
In Israel, it was a standard benefit for all IT related employees. The idea was that anything in IT is considered a creative job, so if you suddenly have a great idea in the middle of the night, you just drive to the office and get to work on it (no remote jobs back in the 90s). The perk stuck around until it got taxed out of existence in 2007-2010-ish.
I've worked a few MSP jobs in the UK and they usually say you have to use your own car. They do pay for petrol though, so if you have a good efficient car you can make some cash on it.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
In the UK it depends. If you are sacked due to gross misconduct you wont get any money. If you are made redundant, you will get a set amount based on length of employment (could be more, but by law its at least that set amount), and if you take voluntary redundancy, you get a package as setup by the former employer... so, it depends.
If you signed a contract for 3 months notice, usually you can negotiate to leave early if you really want. "Im going to give two months". But, if you just walk out you didnt mean your contractual obligations and that could have ramifications.
In the US, one is called being fired and one being laid off. Laid off = made redundant.
Yep, here being laid off will see you get redundancy pay, being fired wont (unless you have a special contract).
In the US, if you are laid off (made redundant) you can apply for unemployment benefits. This is a state level thing, all companies that have employees must pay into the unemployment benefit plan. this pool of money is used to help keep people afloat while they look for new work.
you can even apply to get this if fired or you quit, but it changes how long until you become eligible for those benefits. -
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Why would you get a car working in IT? When do you need to drive anywhere? I don't even need a car to drive to work, let alone anywhere else.
In Israel, it was a standard benefit for all IT related employees. The idea was that anything in IT is considered a creative job, so if you suddenly have a great idea in the middle of the night, you just drive to the office and get to work on it (no remote jobs back in the 90s). The perk stuck around until it got taxed out of existence in 2007-2010-ish.
shakes head - wow - so, you couldn't drive the car for any other reason than going to and from work, right? otherwise this really seems like a BS excuse to give everyone in that company cars.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
In the UK it depends. If you are sacked due to gross misconduct you wont get any money. If you are made redundant, you will get a set amount based on length of employment (could be more, but by law its at least that set amount), and if you take voluntary redundancy, you get a package as setup by the former employer... so, it depends.
If you signed a contract for 3 months notice, usually you can negotiate to leave early if you really want. "Im going to give two months". But, if you just walk out you didnt mean your contractual obligations and that could have ramifications.
In the US, one is called being fired and one being laid off. Laid off = made redundant.
Yep, here being laid off will see you get redundancy pay, being fired wont (unless you have a special contract).
In the US, if you are laid off (made redundant) you can apply for unemployment benefits. This is a state level thing, all companies that have employees must pay into the unemployment benefit plan. this pool of money is used to help keep people afloat while they look for new work.
you can even apply to get this if fired or you quit, but it changes how long until you become eligible for those benefits.Here, its all by the company by law, not related to the the government paying anything. Official wording:
"You'll normally be entitled to statutory redundancy pay if you're an employee and you've been working for your current employer for 2 years or more. You'll get: half a week's pay for each full year you were under 22. one week's pay for each full year you were 22 or older, but under 41"
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
No. . .
But he can walk and gets paid for what he'd worked.
Who said anything about him not being paid for the time he's already worked?
If there is no regulation, who enforces the employer to pay?
The laws. . .
But there is no law that states you are forced to provide a certain amount of notice in "Employment at will" states. You can leave, fired or let go at any time without notice.
That is not the same law as being required to pay employees for time worked.
I wish all of you would stop with this "employment at will" crap. It has next to nothing to do with an employee quitting. It has little to do with getting fired. 100% of the states are at-will employment. A few states have limitations/exceptions.
Having to deal with hiring and firing, I have read a bit, but as always IANAL
This link is one I have saved: https://www.upcounsel.com/at-will-employment-states
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 so he walks out the door, and the employer refuses to pay what is owed for the last month. And there is no regulation for such a case? Damn, I wouldn't want to live in a place where this is the norm.
Of course they still owe him for any time worked. Him walking out the door/quitting has nothing to do with that. Sure they could make him sue them over it, but then he could likely go after some damages as well, I would assume that wouldn't be worth it to the company - just pay him and let him go.
What law would they sue against? If he's done nothing wrong, it is pretty hard to sue.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
No state has a law requiring notice. It's not a law, it's a custom that is almost worse than a law because it is enforced capriciously and secretly.
Like tipping.
Right. But if you don't tip, no one calls other restaurants for a reference before serving you
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
Wow. That must make succession planning a nightmare. I have to give 3 months notice, which is the norm in the UK.
Not really, since you have to have already planned for disasters like getting hit by a bus, there should be no need for a succession plan. How would your company handle you getting sick or something? Same thing, US companies are ready for that. So people quitting isn't a real fear to any functional company. It's not ideal, but not a serious risk.
Most US companies demand that you not even come into work for the last two weeks because you are no longer someone that they want to trust or invest in. In banking, for example, you are generally done (but paid) from the moment you give notice. You give notice and security escorts you to your desk to clean it out and to the door to go home, that's it. You don't get one minute at your computer again.
It's amazing how many times this hasn't been true for me - like everyone of them.
You mean being walked out?
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@coliver said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
When I left, my friends at the office told me they were meeting with a lawyer the very same day. Nothing came of it, because I didn't give them anything to base a lawsuit on, but the fact that they tried remains.
Been there, done that. Went "by the book" and escaped a job where nearly everyone stayed "forever" because they were threatened that if they left that they would destroy their lives (and often did.)
Didn't the threat of a lawsuit prevent you from working in the US for a long time?
Yes, several years.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Been there, done that. Went "by the book" and escaped a job where nearly everyone stayed "forever" because they were threatened that if they left that they would destroy their lives (and often did.)
Yup, I know a few of the folks who left that horrid place. That's also the reason I'll be avoiding MSPs like the plague
Never seen this in an MSP, MSPs can't do that in the US. Suing someone is really the unique providence of the Fortune 500. Only the biggest companies can pull off the huge risk of suing someone because losing that suit could cost the company tens of millions.
