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    Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On

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    • D
      Dashrender @DustinB3403
      last edited by

      @DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

      Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.

      When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.

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      • S
        scottalanmiller @Dashrender
        last edited by

        @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

        @DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

        Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.

        When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.

        Why would you guess that it would be bad?

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          DustinB3403 @Dashrender
          last edited by DustinB3403

          @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

          @DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

          Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.

          When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.

          It was never an issue as the backups were completed after the office had closed for the evening. But they took less than an hour to complete. Total.

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          • J
            JaredBusch @Dashrender
            last edited by

            @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

            @DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

            Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.

            When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.

            umm like how? Snap's don't do anything to the disk after the initial writes to create the new snap files. Then it is just read of the snap to the target. This is zero different than every hypervisor backup mechanism ever.

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            • B
              black3dynamite @scottalanmiller
              last edited by

              @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

              Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.

              Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.

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              • S
                scottalanmiller @black3dynamite
                last edited by

                @black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.

                Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.

                Well it's for a server 🙂

                J 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • J
                  JaredBusch @scottalanmiller
                  last edited by

                  @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                  @black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                  @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                  Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.

                  Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.

                  Well it's for a server 🙂

                  It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.

                  D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • D
                    Dashrender @JaredBusch
                    last edited by

                    @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                    @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                    @black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                    @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                    Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.

                    Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.

                    Well it's for a server 🙂

                    It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.

                    I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.

                    J 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • J
                      JaredBusch @Dashrender
                      last edited by JaredBusch

                      @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                      @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                      @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                      @black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                      @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                      Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.

                      Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.

                      Well it's for a server 🙂

                      It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.

                      I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.

                      When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
                      right above where it shows login

                      b2e2e187-2303-4fa6-a63f-3d4068a08192-image.png

                      D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • D
                        Dashrender @JaredBusch
                        last edited by

                        @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                        @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                        @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                        @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                        @black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                        @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                        Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.

                        Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.

                        Well it's for a server 🙂

                        It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.

                        I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.

                        When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
                        right baove where it shows login

                        aww - it does not say - GO TO...

                        But it does say

                        webconsole: https://localhost:9090/

                        J 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • D
                          Dashrender
                          last edited by

                          Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.

                          I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.

                          J S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • J
                            JaredBusch @Dashrender
                            last edited by

                            @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                            Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.

                            I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.

                            Well my KVM host only shows localhost on the console screen, but when I SSH into it, I see the names. which is weird.
                            189eb25a-8656-4bed-9719-0654b0ad5a2e-image.png

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • J
                              JaredBusch @Dashrender
                              last edited by

                              @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                              @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                              @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                              @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                              @black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                              Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.

                              Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.

                              Well it's for a server 🙂

                              It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.

                              I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.

                              When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
                              right baove where it shows login

                              aww - it does not say - GO TO...

                              But it does say

                              webconsole: https://localhost:9090/

                              No one has ever said you didn't have to think or learn nothing to use KVM. Just that it is easy by comparison.

                              Compared to Hyper-V this is much simpler. Debatable on how much easier than VMWare as I have not installed it in years now.

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                              • D
                                Dashrender @JaredBusch
                                last edited by

                                @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                @JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                @black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.

                                Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.

                                Well it's for a server 🙂

                                It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.

                                I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.

                                When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
                                right baove where it shows login

                                aww - it does not say - GO TO...

                                But it does say

                                webconsole: https://localhost:9090/

                                No one has ever said you didn't have to think or learn nothing to use KVM. Just that it is easy by comparison.

                                Compared to Hyper-V this is much simpler. Debatable on how much easier than VMWare as I have not installed it in years now.

                                OK it was braindead'ish easy to install and get to the console. Though - something a bit more in your face about the web console like XS would be nice.

                                As for what options to choose to get a KVM host - Scott's example above works fine, even from a Netinstall ISO - choose Fedora Server > Headless Virtualization (only selected option)
                                and you end up with something. I don't have time now to play with it, but I will tomorrow.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • S
                                  scottalanmiller @Dashrender
                                  last edited by

                                  @Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                  Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.

                                  I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.

                                  We tend to, because it is part of setting up the static networking, which you often do with hypervisors. not always, of course, but it is common.

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                                  • D
                                    dyasny
                                    last edited by

                                    Glad to see you stopped being such a die hard Xen fan 🙂 I remember you fighting tooth and nail against KVM on spice forums.

                                    S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                                      scottalanmiller @dyasny
                                      last edited by

                                      @dyasny said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                      Glad to see you stopped being such a die hard Xen fan 🙂 I remember you fighting tooth and nail against KVM on spice forums.

                                      Not so much a fan, as choosing the best products at the best time. Xen was superior for a long time. KVM had a lot of deficiencies. KVM has pulled ahead in a lot of ways. I don't choose or promote products because I like them, I do so because I believe that they are fitting the specific need best.

                                      That means, that naturally, as the products change over time their place in the universe changes. And nothing is for everyone. Xen still remains a viable player, KVM just makes sense for more shops, more of the time.

                                      D stacksofplatesS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                                        dyasny @scottalanmiller
                                        last edited by

                                        @scottalanmiller my guess is, when Amazon started running KVM (as was expected when they hired Anthony Liguori), that was the last straw for you, because your main argument against KVM has always been "but Amazon..." 🙂

                                        But nevermind me, I'm just having fun here. Been riding the KVM train since before it was generally heard of after all

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                                          scottalanmiller @dyasny
                                          last edited by

                                          @dyasny said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                          @scottalanmiller my guess is, when Amazon started running KVM (as was expected when they hired Anthony Liguori), that was the last straw for you, because your main argument against KVM has always been "but Amazon..." 🙂

                                          But nevermind me, I'm just having fun here. Been riding the KVM train since before it was generally heard of after all

                                          Amazon still uses both, even now, actually. But that was a factor, to be sure. Amazon's drop in investment meant that Xen had way less future than before. And Citrix serious tried to burn it down, which really sucked. And getting the Xen community to do XCP-NG took a year longer than it should have, so the opportunity wasn't as ripe. And KVM just pulled ahead in a lot of ways, the Linux vendors all adopting it so heavily was a big factor.

                                          XO did a lot to keep Xen on the table, and it is still very viable and good today because of that. And it still might make a comeback. But the lack of serious development around full PV, and the incredible rise of LXD has made Xen's space less viable.

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                                          • stacksofplatesS
                                            stacksofplates @scottalanmiller
                                            last edited by

                                            @scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                            @dyasny said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:

                                            Glad to see you stopped being such a die hard Xen fan 🙂 I remember you fighting tooth and nail against KVM on spice forums.

                                            Not so much a fan, as choosing the best products at the best time. Xen was superior for a long time. KVM had a lot of deficiencies. KVM has pulled ahead in a lot of ways. I don't choose or promote products because I like them, I do so because I believe that they are fitting the specific need best.

                                            That means, that naturally, as the products change over time their place in the universe changes. And nothing is for everyone. Xen still remains a viable player, KVM just makes sense for more shops, more of the time.

                                            KVM has been the same since ~2013 she I started with it. The only difference is Cockpit. All the other tools have existed for quite some time.

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