Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article
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@dustinb3403 said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
The bottle filler, is literally the last stop for the bus. Eliminating the need for a pharmacist, would also eliminate the need for Prescription reviewers and many other "filler" jobs in between.
It's not just "let's get rid of that job" it's "let's get rid of half or more of the industry as there is a ton of wasted effort here".
Right, exactly. It is an ecosystem of jobs. Each step costs money, and adds risk.
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You wouldn't even need sales people to talk to Hospitals any longer as older, more risky medicine would simply no longer be available for order if the sales system was revamped.
New and improved with less risk (and/or side effects) would be the norm, and prescribed to be exact to the patient.
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@dustinb3403 said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
You wouldn't even need sales people to talk to Hospitals any longer as older, more risky medicine would simply no longer be available for order if the sales system was revamped.
That should be fixed, I agree. But it would be slightly different. The pharmacy system is not what pushes the medicines, that's actually the doctors. The doctors are the primary "salesmen" for medicines. Pharmacists just close the transaction. So you'd need other steps to stop pharmaceuticals from incentivizing doctors to push drugs.
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Still talking about the pharmacist, imagine how many times a singular wrong pill of similar shape gets mixed in and makes for an extremely dangerous concoction.
Scan every pill to the exact amount, confirm the marking on the pills etc and count the exact quantity needed.
And do it way faster, more accurately and with way less risk. You'll never get a machine that sneezes on your pills.
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@scottalanmiller said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
Here we are, moved the GBI discussion out here.
So are we talking about GBI? My main point was it was obvious that the author looks down on blue collar jobs, why else would you call them shit jobs? I agree there are useless jobs. I don't agree that there are people that actively work to create these jobs to keep people from being idle. I believe they are an outgrowth of human inefficiency, government bureaucracy, and people trying to protect their jobs from automation. Just to sum up my points.
So what I want to know is this and I am trying to approach GBI with an open mind so these are my genuine questions.
1.) If everyone has GBI, do other government benefits go away? Food stamps, SNAP, etc since you should have the money to buy food and basic needs?
2.) where does the money come from? The government gets it money from taxing. People's income, sale's tax, etc. If someone works are they excluded from GBI? Is your GBI taxed? Are they taxed higher than those of GBI in order to pay for GBI.
3.) On a philosophical note, does the government not control you once they give you a GBI?
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@dustinb3403 said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
Still talking about the pharmacist, imagine how many times a singular wrong pill of similar shape gets mixed in and makes for an extremely dangerous concoction.
SO many steps between the doctor and the bottle for things to go wrong. And technically, even handing out the wrong bottle is possible!
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@scottalanmiller I'm specifically talking about the sales people from the companies like Sanofi or boehringer ingelheim.
They have their own sales teams that go and sell in droves to hospitals, those hospitals then get their doctors to prescribe.
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@scottalanmiller You are arguing with @PenguinWrangler when he doesn't even understand hte concept being discussed.
He is locked up on "free money" and has zero understanding of then entire concept.
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@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
I believe they are an outgrowth of human inefficiency, government bureaucracy, and people trying to protect their jobs from automation. Just to sum up my points.
Sure, but that's basically the same thing. As long as we don't have GBI, we have a strong incentive to have all of those things. Inefficiency is rewarded, bureaucracy is rewarded, protecting jobs is needed. Since GBI is a choice the choice to not have it is a design for those things.
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@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
@scottalanmiller said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
Here we are, moved the GBI discussion out here.
So are we talking about GBI? My main point was it was obvious that the author looks down on blue collar jobs, why else would you call them shit jobs? I agree there are useless jobs. I don't agree that there are people that actively work to create these jobs to keep people from being idle. I believe they are an outgrowth of human inefficiency, government bureaucracy, and people trying to protect their jobs from automation. Just to sum up my points.
So what I want to know is this and I am trying to approach GBI with an open mind so these are my genuine questions.
1.) If everyone has GBI, do other government benefits go away? Food stamps, SNAP, etc since you should have the money to buy food and basic needs?
2.) where does the money come from? The government gets it money from taxing. People's income, sale's tax, etc. If someone works are they excluded from GBI? Is your GBI taxed? Are they taxed higher than those of GBI in order to pay for GBI.
3.) On a philosophical note, does the government not control you once they give you a GBI?
4.) Also what about child support? Considering the government is now giving you income for your basic needs and I would assume your children, child support wouldn't be needed after a divorce.
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@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
@scottalanmiller said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
Here we are, moved the GBI discussion out here.
So are we talking about GBI? My main point was it was obvious that the author looks down on blue collar jobs, why else would you call them shit jobs? I agree there are useless jobs. I don't agree that there are people that actively work to create these jobs to keep people from being idle. I believe they are an outgrowth of human inefficiency, government bureaucracy, and people trying to protect their jobs from automation. Just to sum up my points.
So what I want to know is this and I am trying to approach GBI with an open mind so these are my genuine questions.
1.) If everyone has GBI, do other government benefits go away? Food stamps, SNAP, etc since you should have the money to buy food and basic needs?
2.) where does the money come from? The government gets it money from taxing. People's income, sale's tax, etc. If someone works are they excluded from GBI? Is your GBI taxed? Are they taxed higher than those of GBI in order to pay for GBI.
3.) On a philosophical note, does the government not control you once they give you a GBI?
4.) Also what about child support? Considering the government is now giving you income for your basic needs and I would assume your children, child support wouldn't be needed after a divorce.
Correct, all of that type of stuff would be unnecessary. And part of the positives there are that the handing out of money is EASY. Takes like no effort to get people their money.
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Yeah this post proves he doens't understand the entire concept of GBI
@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
1.) If everyone has GBI, do other government benefits go away? Food stamps, SNAP, etc since you should have the money to buy food and basic needs?
2.) where does the money come from? The government gets it money from taxing. People's income, sale's tax, etc. If someone works are they excluded from GBI? Is your GBI taxed? Are they taxed higher than those of GBI in order to pay for GBI.
3.) On a philosophical note, does the government not control you once they give you a GBI?
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@jaredbusch said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
Yeah this post proves he doens't understand the entire concept of GBI
@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
1.) If everyone has GBI, do other government benefits go away? Food stamps, SNAP, etc since you should have the money to buy food and basic needs?
2.) where does the money come from? The government gets it money from taxing. People's income, sale's tax, etc. If someone works are they excluded from GBI? Is your GBI taxed? Are they taxed higher than those of GBI in order to pay for GBI.
3.) On a philosophical note, does the government not control you once they give you a GBI?
There are different competing theories to GBI.
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@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
1.) If everyone has GBI, do other government benefits go away? Food stamps, SNAP, etc since you should have the money to buy food and basic needs?
Right, all of these programs would be unnecessary. Because no one would qualify. Everyone has enough money for basic needs like food and shelter.
And without loads of cost to oversee those programs, you save a fortune in doing this, too.
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Still wondering where the money comes from.
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@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
3.) On a philosophical note, does the government not control you once they give you a GBI?
No, far less. Because today, government money is discretionary. But with GBI, it is not, it is guaranteed. So it is specifically removing the government from a lot of potential meddling.
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@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
Still wondering where the money comes from.
/sigh
FFS, the same place it does now.
No one has ever stated that no one would work. That would be species stagnation.
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@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
2.) where does the money come from? The government gets it money from taxing. People's income, sale's tax, etc. If someone works are they excluded from GBI? Is your GBI taxed? Are they taxed higher than those of GBI in order to pay for GBI.
No magic here. Where does the money come from today? GBI theory says that LESS money is needed, not more. You never tax government pay, makes no sense.
So there is no need for as much money as there is today. You reduce the total government financial needs. Then you take discretionary income (that above GBI) potentially, tax property, tax sales, tax business. Basically, other than simplifying tax laws just to be practical, taxes don't really need to change.
That's the magic of GBI, there is really no need for the money to "come from somewhere". We already have a surplus.
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Part of the goal of GBI is to grow, not shrink the economy, while lowering the overhead.
Think of any company becoming more lean and efficient. Spend less, earn more.
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@penguinwrangler said in Discussing Basic Income from Forbes Article:
Still wondering where the money comes from.
By taxing corporations that make billions and maybe pay a few million in taxes, by taxing the positions that can't go away (at an appropriate amount).
From the same taxing methods used today, but no you can't tax GBI because then you're defeating the point of it. I already asked this, and was answered on it. really it was more a NYS complaint
