Hyper-V Network card setup?
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@dashrender said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@dave247 said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
I leave 1 NIC (sometimes teamed) dedicated for host management and replication and such.
Then a team of 2-3 NICs for all VMs to use (not shared with the host OS).
In your case, for testing, I'd do the following:
NIC1 = Management, replication, migration (this is the one that gets a DNS entry, turn off DNS registration on the others)
NIC2 & NIC3 = Teamed - Not shared with the "management OS" (uncheck that box in Hyper-V later after team is set up)
NIC4 = Other testing as you see fit (iSCSI, DMZ, different subnet/network, failover for another network, etc)
What is the point of a management NIC let alone a team? You have everything on the same subnet in a SMB anyway.
Management networks are all fine when you have a large infrastructure and multiple subnets.
Yeah I don't have a management network set up. Though we do have a lot of servers and appliances, so it might be nice to set one up anyway. But that's another project for another day.
But do you have enough (reasons) to warrant splitting out the management network from the main network?
Sure, I think so. I have a bunch of iDRACs for our Dell servers (like 25ish) as well as 10 switches and a few rack appliances. I'd say maybe 50ish systems. I could see having a nice little /26 management subnet.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
What is the point of a management NIC let alone a team?
Hyper-V Management, VM replication, VM migration, backups, etc. This NIC is the one that has a DNS entry, all the others do not.
The point is to keep that traffic separate from the NICs the VMs are using and the users are using to connect to the servers.
Teamed because some (in my case) VMs are being replicated, backed up, and (sometimes) migrated across sites. In this one case, also teamed because if not teamed, it would have been left open/free anyways. If it's needed for something else, there's no downtime involved in breaking a TEAM to use it for soemthing else.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
You have everything on the same subnet in a SMB anyway.
Not all SMBs are 10-employee shops man... stop assuming.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Management networks are all fine when you have a large infrastructure and multiple subnets.
In my case it is.
If testing things in a lab, why not learn to accommodate more than a 10-man shop?
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@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
You have everything on the same subnet in a SMB anyway.
Not all SMBs are 10-employee shops man... stop assuming.
Not, but even a SMB in the 500 employee range does not need multiple subnets.
Stop over complicating things.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
You have everything on the same subnet in a SMB anyway.
Not all SMBs are 10-employee shops man... stop assuming.
Not, but even a SMB in the 500 employee range does not need multiple subnets.
Stop over complicating things.
Just... stop. There's hundreds of reasons for multiple subnets in a 500-employee multi-site SMB. Please, just stop.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
You have everything on the same subnet in a SMB anyway.
Not all SMBs are 10-employee shops man... stop assuming.
Not, but even a SMB in the 500 employee range does not need multiple subnets.
Stop over complicating things.
Stop pointing out anomalies and saying I'm over-complicating things. How many 500-employee SMBs do you know of that only have one subnet? And if any, I'm sure they are one of hte few or their business model fits it just fine. Maybe 500 employees, and one server and 10 devices total...
You just need to stop this crap with your blanket assumptions.
EVERYTHING depends on each environment.
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@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
You have everything on the same subnet in a SMB anyway.
Not all SMBs are 10-employee shops man... stop assuming.
Not, but even a SMB in the 500 employee range does not need multiple subnets.
Stop over complicating things.
Just... stop. There's hundreds of reasons for multiple subnets in a 500-employee multi-site SMB. Please, just stop.
Multi-site does not mean you need multiple subnets within each site, which is the point I am making.
Your replication and backup processes for this size will almost never be pegging the bandwidth from your 4 NIC team. This means no impact to your users.
So again, you are adding complications and restrictions without a good business need.
Of course these function exist for a reason.
Of course they do exactly what you say they do.
Of course, you likely have no actual technical need for it in almost any SMB.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Multi-site does not mean you need multiple subnets within each site, which is the point I am making.
True, and it also doesn't mean you need a single subnet either.
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@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Multi-site does not mean you need multiple subnets within each site, which is the point I am making.
True, and it also doesn't mean you need a single subnet either.
It does without a valid business need to justify the expense and complication of adding it.
Yes the expense is relatively small, but often, the complication down the road is not. -
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Your replication and backup processes for this size will almost never be pegging the bandwidth from your 4 NIC team. This means no impact to your users.
AGAIN, it depends. Is his 4-NIC team though the Switch or is it switch independant? If switch independant, then you only get 1gbps... so then yes, it will impact users... very easily. Even many VMs replicating.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
So again, you are adding complications and restrictions without a good business need.
They aren't complications. They are considerations, to be decided by HIM, for HIS OWN ENVIRONMENT.
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@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Your replication and backup processes for this size will almost never be pegging the bandwidth from your 4 NIC team. This means no impact to your users.
AGAIN, it depends. Is his 4-NIC team though the Switch or is it switch independant? If switch independant, then you only get 1gbps... so then yes, it will impact users... very easily. Even many VMs replicating.
Not true. Because you get 1GB per connection. Replication uses multiple connections.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Multi-site does not mean you need multiple subnets within each site, which is the point I am making.
True, and it also doesn't mean you need a single subnet either.
It does without a valid business need to justify the expense and complication of adding it.
Yes the expense is relatively small, but often, the complication down the road is not.And who TF are you to say what his or my business needs may or may not be? You have no idea.
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@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Multi-site does not mean you need multiple subnets within each site, which is the point I am making.
True, and it also doesn't mean you need a single subnet either.
It does without a valid business need to justify the expense and complication of adding it.
Yes the expense is relatively small, but often, the complication down the road is not.And who TF are you to say what his or my business needs may or may not be? You have no idea.
The guy that has had to come in behind the idiots that have no idea what they are doing and fix shit.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Your replication and backup processes for this size will almost never be pegging the bandwidth from your 4 NIC team. This means no impact to your users.
AGAIN, it depends. Is his 4-NIC team though the Switch or is it switch independant? If switch independant, then you only get 1gbps... so then yes, it will impact users... very easily. Even many VMs replicating.
Not true. Because you get 1GB per connection. Replication uses multiple connections.
That's not really what I meant or wanted to say. It still depends.
If he's on a single subnet for the entire SMB like you suggest, and backups are running, replication is happening, users are accessing file servers, people on internet, phones/devices on wireless network (on same single-subnet you like to have)... times 500 people across a site or two....
...then it doesn't matter how many NICs you have in a team. That subnet is busy.
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@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Your replication and backup processes for this size will almost never be pegging the bandwidth from your 4 NIC team. This means no impact to your users.
AGAIN, it depends. Is his 4-NIC team though the Switch or is it switch independant? If switch independant, then you only get 1gbps... so then yes, it will impact users... very easily. Even many VMs replicating.
Not true. Because you get 1GB per connection. Replication uses multiple connections.
That's not really what I meant or wanted to say. It still depends.
If he's on a single subnet for the entire SMB like you suggest, and backups are running, replication is happening, users are accessing file servers, people on internet, phones/devices on wireless network (on same single-subnet you like to have)... times 500 people across a site or two....
...then it doesn't matter how many NICs you have in a team. That subnet is busy.
But the only switch that is even slightly busy is the single switch with the NIC teams for the servers.
I will totally grant you that I am assuming that @dave247 has a well designed network and would not be passing replication across a 1GB uplink between switches.
Edit: I assume based on his post of 25 servers that a propper switching backplane is in place.
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Your replication and backup processes for this size will almost never be pegging the bandwidth from your 4 NIC team. This means no impact to your users.
AGAIN, it depends. Is his 4-NIC team though the Switch or is it switch independant? If switch independant, then you only get 1gbps... so then yes, it will impact users... very easily. Even many VMs replicating.
Not true. Because you get 1GB per connection. Replication uses multiple connections.
That's not really what I meant or wanted to say. It still depends.
If he's on a single subnet for the entire SMB like you suggest, and backups are running, replication is happening, users are accessing file servers, people on internet, phones/devices on wireless network (on same single-subnet you like to have)... times 500 people across a site or two....
...then it doesn't matter how many NICs you have in a team. That subnet is busy.
But the only switch that is even slightly busy is the single switch with the NIC teams for the servers.
I will totally grant you that I am assuming that @dave247 has a well designed network and would not be passing replication across a 1GB uplink between switches.
Edit: I assume based on his post of 25 servers that a propper switching backplane is in place.
I don't know anything about his environment, didn't see the 25 server thing, and seen nothing about his network setup. I'm speaking from knowing zero about his environment.
No teaming is needed if it's not needed. Only network test results can tell you that.
He asked for best practices, which should usually apply unless they dont' make sense for an environment.
It's a well-known and well-documented best practice to leave a single dedicated management port/NIC for your Hypervisor, and use the remaining ports as needed.
At least one NIC to use as a virtual switch for Hyper-V VMs. It's up to the individual to decide whether or not teaming is needed, and how many to use in the team.
We don't know what all of his needs are. If he teams all 4 NICs, then there's nothign left for anythign else, like a DMZ connection or iSCSI connection to a SAN or something on a private network. Only he knows that stuff. Maybe he can team all 4 and be done with it.
What I told him:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
NIC1 = Management, replication, migration
NIC2 & NIC3 = Teamed - Not shared with the "management OS" (uncheck that box in Hyper-V later after team is set up)
NIC4 = Other testing as you see fit (iSCSI, DMZ, different subnet/network, failover for another network, etc)I was under the impression he was testing things in a lab, playign with Hyper-V and different scenarios. That's a great setup for what I thought was his use-case. That gives him a lot of play and flexibility for testing a lot of things.
There's nothign wrong with that setup at all. It also follows general guidelines and best practices.
It goes without saying, that should that not fit for his environment, to adjust as needed. If what's needed is a 4-port TEAM and he doen'st want to do anythign else in his testing, then great.
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Run dpack and see what your current workload is like in terms of bandwidth. Unless you are using the network like crazy, i'd bet just sharing 1 x 1 Gigabit interface to the core switch for all VMs would be fine. Get some data, review results, and build.
Dont team unless you need to. Only do what you need to do.
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@dave247 said in Hyper-V Network card setup?:
Thanks. And this isn't for testing. I actually want to use this server for some production servers.
Sorry, didn't know. I mistakenly assumed testing and lab because of the time frame.
But you can't go wrong with doing it that way.
If you have no need for an extra NIC you could do a 3-NIC team. If you are fine with no management NIC, do a 4-port team and share it with your management OS if for some reason you need that many NICs in a team. Though you probably don't.
