HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?
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What is it doing that's harmful?
HP Spectres are pretty sweet.
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
What is it doing that's harmful?
HP Spectres are pretty sweet.
It's siphoning off data without your permission. Totally unacceptable.
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@rojoloco said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
What is it doing that's harmful?
HP Spectres are pretty sweet.
It's siphoning off data without your permission. Totally unacceptable.
Not to mention borderline illegal.
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@coliver said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@rojoloco said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
What is it doing that's harmful?
HP Spectres are pretty sweet.
It's siphoning off data without your permission. Totally unacceptable.
Not to mention
borderlineillegal.FTFY
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I'm sure the nuances are worth arguing.
I'm certainly not ok with the general idea of what happened, but they aren't siphoning off your contact list and personal documents. It sounds like they are getting system data of the HP hardware, presumably so they can improve future hardware/software updates or provide support, whatever.
I don't know, that's what I'm asking. What exactly is it siphoning, and why? And is their use of this tool and its data gathering agreed upon in some HP license or hardware agreement somewhere?
It seems like every device and software any more wants to phone home some kind of environment/telemetry data. Again presumably because it helps them develop the software better and debug edge case issues.
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SURPRISE! All of the big companies you use are secretly collecting data about you and what you do, or are getting hacked for the stuff you do give them.
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
I'm certainly not ok with the general idea of what happened, but they aren't siphoning off your contact list and personal documents.
How do you know this? Illegal spyware is illegal spyware. They are stealing data without permission, they are deploying malware without permission. What they are gathering today or that you know about isn't really part of the discussion.
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
It seems like every device and software any more wants to phone home some kind of environment/telemetry data. Again presumably because it helps them develop the software better and debug edge case issues.
Sure, and there are legit, legal ways to do that. This is not that and points to a nefarious purpose.
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Interesting, I have only Dell workstations so I cannot say. Let's see what @travisdh1 says about this.
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@scottalanmiller said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
I'm certainly not ok with the general idea of what happened, but they aren't siphoning off your contact list and personal documents.
How do you know this? Illegal spyware is illegal spyware. They are stealing data without permission, they are deploying malware without permission. What they are gathering today or that you know about isn't really part of the discussion.
It's not illegal if it's in the terms and agreements.
One wonders, why shouldn't a hardware maker like HP send hardware use stats back? Anybody wonder what data their internet-connected TVs are sending back? Xbox and Playstation and Roku and Amazon Echo and all those IOT thingies?
I have a Synology device, I have no clue if hardware stats and telemetry data are being sent home. Probably, I don't know.I'm not saying I like it, but heck, even "fake desktop web apps in a chrome frame" apps come with Google Analytics that is reporting everything about how the app is used.
Like when one of these apps gets an update and they remove a feature, then a few people complain and they say "well we noticed very few users were using that feature and so we moved in this other direction..."
And just how did they know so few people clicked a certain link somewhere within their app and how much?I'm saying, how is HP doing the same thing any different? Nobody has reported what data it was collecting or if it was personal or bad. Only that it was installed without permission. If Amazon Echo phones home how the device is used, why can't HP phone home about how their laptop is used?
I guess I'm really asking, are we just having double standards and only barking at HP because they are doing exactly what everybody else does, only they were caught?
If my Synology were running background spyware and phoning home, I don't know it, I also wasn't asked. But since I don't know about it, I can't be mad at them. I CAN be mad at HP, cause they goofed and made their spyware more visible.
So I don't know, it feels like double standards to me.
Every device phones home licenses and logins and maybe even usage data. But since they don't ask us, and we don't see, it must be ok. -
@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@scottalanmiller said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
I'm certainly not ok with the general idea of what happened, but they aren't siphoning off your contact list and personal documents.
How do you know this? Illegal spyware is illegal spyware. They are stealing data without permission, they are deploying malware without permission. What they are gathering today or that you know about isn't really part of the discussion.
It's not illegal if it's in the terms and agreements.
Of course not, it's the lack of ToS that is the problem. This is pushed silently without permission or notification. Hence, no ToS.
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
One wonders, why shouldn't a hardware maker like HP send hardware use stats back? Anybody wonder what data their internet-connected TVs are sending back? Xbox and Playstation and Roku and Amazon Echo and all those IOT thingies?
I have a Synology device, I have no clue if hardware stats and telemetry data are being sent home. Probably, I don't know.They should, no one is really discussing that. Hardware vendors using proper procedures to get telemetry data is a good thing. That's what we wish that they were doing here.
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
I'm saying, how is HP doing the same thing any different? Nobody has reported what data it was collecting or if it was personal or bad. Only that it was installed without permission.
- That's all that matters. It's malware stealing data that isn't approved.
- They don't know what it is collecting, as this is all stolen data being collected in secret.
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
I guess I'm really asking, are we just having double standards and only barking at HP because they are doing exactly what everybody else does, only they were caught?
Name anyone, other than Lenovo, that has done something like this? And you can't say we've not held Lenovo accountable. Who do you have to compare this to?
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
So I don't know, it feels like double standards to me.
How can it be a double standard if we treat everyone equally?
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
Every device phones home licenses and logins and maybe even usage data. But since they don't ask us, and we don't see, it must be ok.
What are you talking about? Can you provide concrete examples? I don't know of any that have been ignored like you are suggesting.
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@scottalanmiller said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
I'm saying, how is HP doing the same thing any different? Nobody has reported what data it was collecting or if it was personal or bad. Only that it was installed without permission.
- That's all that matters. It's malware stealing data that isn't approved.
- They don't know what it is collecting, as this is all stolen data being collected in secret.
And I'm saying, for #1, most internet-connected thingies we use probably do the same. We only get mad when someone finds it and makes it public. We're only mad because they got caught.
I perfectly understand the reaction of #2. But what is Google storing and collecting, or your ISP, or the NSA, or DNS providers, or your browser, or email clients? Does anybody know? If they aren't caught, we can't be mad, but we all know they are doing it.
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@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@scottalanmiller said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
I'm saying, how is HP doing the same thing any different? Nobody has reported what data it was collecting or if it was personal or bad. Only that it was installed without permission.
- That's all that matters. It's malware stealing data that isn't approved.
- They don't know what it is collecting, as this is all stolen data being collected in secret.
And I'm saying, for #1, most internet-connected thingies we use probably do the same. We only get mad when someone finds it and makes it public. We're only mad because they got caught.
I perfectly understand the reaction of #2. But what is Google storing and collecting, or your ISP, or the NSA, or DNS providers, or your browser, or email clients? Does anybody know? If they aren't caught, we can't be mad, but we all know they are doing it.
It's the way in which HP and Lenovo are doing it, as Scott said, nefariously.
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@scottalanmiller said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
@guyinpv said in HP Possible pulling a Lenovo with Stealthy spyware?:
Every device phones home licenses and logins and maybe even usage data. But since they don't ask us, and we don't see, it must be ok.
What are you talking about? Can you provide concrete examples? I don't know of any that have been ignored like you are suggesting.
Windows 10 wants you to sign in with a Microsoft account. We know it stores your licensing and account data, but apparently stores all your entire configurations too, and can track usage and Cortana data and voice learning and a million other things.
I bet MS is collecting 10x the info (and more personal too) that HP is.
