Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 8:24 PM

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

I was tempted to go KVM. But TBH I think the world of support is so much larger for Hyper-V.

I don't think that this makes sense. Here is why...

We know from the Windows/Linux world that this logic doesn't work in IT in general.
This implies that Hyper-V needs more support, not that it is better for customers.
The size of support is a worthless indicator to customers, why does this give an impression of importance?
Better products generally make more sense than products that need lots of support.
The KVM product support ecosystem seems to heavily outscale the Hyper-V one.

Basically, as logic goes, I think this is at best misplaced, and at worst, backwards.

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 8:24 PM

Youtube Video

BRRABill · Nov 9, 2017, 8:42 PM

It's really more back to the basics of not knowing enough Linux.

XS was definitely easy. If you didn't mess with it (our newly coined phrase "the first rule of XS") it was plug and play.

But I'm not sure KVM is going to be like that.

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 8:47 PM

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

It's really more back to the basics of not knowing enough Linux.

XS was definitely easy. If you didn't mess with it (our newly coined phrase "the first rule of XS") it was plug and play.

But I'm not sure KVM is going to be like that.

That's totally different than what was said. By that logic, you'd avoid Hyper-V as you have zero experience with it. You at least have some Linux experience, but zero Hyper-V and Hyper-V is not Windows.

Also, just as Linux is easier than Windows to learn, KVM is easier than Hyper-V. Hyper-V's claim to fame being that it isn't straightforward or simple for a lot of people.

KVM is actualy super simple with some basic, included tools (on Fedora, of course.)

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 8:47 PM

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

But I'm not sure KVM is going to be like that.

But you are sure that Hyper-V will be?

BRRABill · Nov 9, 2017, 8:54 PM

@scottalanmiller said

Hyper-V is not Windows.

Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.

travisdh1 · Nov 9, 2017, 9:09 PM

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

Yeah. Being an old-time UNIX person I went with KVM. Stick with what you know best when all else is equal, and Hyper-V/KVM are quite close feature wise.

Being a Linux noob, is what is pushing me to Hyper-V.

Though none of my test machines will install it since 2016 requires SLAT. Again, what a pain.

golf clap Good man.

I was tempted to go KVM. But TBH I think the world of support is so much larger for Hyper-V.

The amount of people using it is greater. The quality, well, that's another matter.

DustinB3403 · Nov 9, 2017, 9:11 PM

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@scottalanmiller said

Hyper-V is not Windows.

Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.

But it isn't at all Windows. It literally shares nothing in common with Windows, besides the developer.

BRRABill · Nov 9, 2017, 9:19 PM

@dustinb3403 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@scottalanmiller said

Hyper-V is not Windows.

Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.

But it isn't at all Windows. It literally shares nothing in common with Windows, besides the developer.

I can administer a Hyper-V server and VMs and it looks just like any other Windows server I administer. It shares a look and common practices.

For example, using Disk Management to adjust disks.

JaredBusch · Nov 9, 2017, 9:24 PM

@dustinb3403 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@scottalanmiller said

Hyper-V is not Windows.

Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.

But it isn't at all Windows. It literally shares nothing in common with Windows, besides the developer.

It is 100% Windows. why the hell would you even think it is not?

It is Microsoft Windows Hyper-V Server 2016.

DustinB3403 · Nov 9, 2017, 9:25 PM

@jaredbusch said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@dustinb3403 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@scottalanmiller said

Hyper-V is not Windows.

Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.

But it isn't at all Windows. It literally shares nothing in common with Windows, besides the developer.

It is 100% Windows. why the hell would you even think it is not?

It is Microsoft Windows Hyper-V Server 2016.

. . .

Dashrender · Nov 9, 2017, 9:25 PM

@jaredbusch said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@dustinb3403 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@scottalanmiller said

Hyper-V is not Windows.

Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.

But it isn't at all Windows. It literally shares nothing in common with Windows, besides the developer.

It is 100% Windows. why the hell would you even think it is not?

It is Microsoft Windows Hyper-V Server 2016.

Now I wonder - does it run on the Windows kernel?

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 9:33 PM

@dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@jaredbusch said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@dustinb3403 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@scottalanmiller said

Hyper-V is not Windows.

Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.

But it isn't at all Windows. It literally shares nothing in common with Windows, besides the developer.

It is 100% Windows. why the hell would you even think it is not?

It is Microsoft Windows Hyper-V Server 2016.

Now I wonder - does it run on the Windows kernel?

Nope, the kernel is Hyper-V

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 9:33 PM

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@scottalanmiller said

Hyper-V is not Windows.

Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.

As with many things in the Windows world, "looks like" isn't the same as "is". Ubuntu looks like Linux, but is Windows on Windows.

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 9:34 PM

@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

Yeah. Being an old-time UNIX person I went with KVM. Stick with what you know best when all else is equal, and Hyper-V/KVM are quite close feature wise.

Being a Linux noob, is what is pushing me to Hyper-V.

Though none of my test machines will install it since 2016 requires SLAT. Again, what a pain.

golf clap Good man.

I was tempted to go KVM. But TBH I think the world of support is so much larger for Hyper-V.

The amount of people using it is greater. The quality, well, that's another matter.

KVM has more? I'd expect way more, especially as Amazon moves over.

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 9:35 PM

If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.

Dashrender · Nov 9, 2017, 9:46 PM

@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.

Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?

stacksofplates · Nov 9, 2017, 9:59 PM

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

It's really more back to the basics of not knowing enough Linux.

XS was definitely easy. If you didn't mess with it (our newly coined phrase "the first rule of XS") it was plug and play.

But I'm not sure KVM is going to be like that.

When you install CentOS/Fedora check the box for hypervisor role. Done. You have a KVM box.

Virt-Manager only runs on nix but cli is easy to use. Esp when you can just do

virt-builder fedora-26 -f qcow2

and you have a disk with Fedora26 ready to go. Just define the VM and attach that disk and you’re done.

travisdh1 · Nov 9, 2017, 10:01 PM

@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

Yeah. Being an old-time UNIX person I went with KVM. Stick with what you know best when all else is equal, and Hyper-V/KVM are quite close feature wise.

Being a Linux noob, is what is pushing me to Hyper-V.

Though none of my test machines will install it since 2016 requires SLAT. Again, what a pain.

golf clap Good man.

I was tempted to go KVM. But TBH I think the world of support is so much larger for Hyper-V.

The amount of people using it is greater. The quality, well, that's another matter.

KVM has more? I'd expect way more, especially as Amazon moves over.

The amount of warm bodies, not the # of deployments that Xen and now KVM are way more.

scottalanmiller · Nov 9, 2017, 10:05 PM

@dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.

Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?

Of course, that's not an architectural element that could possibly change. That would make it a totally different product altogether.

Remember the simple mantra - Hyper-V is always the same thing, no matter how you install it.