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    Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM

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    xen kvm amazon aws virtualization cloud computing el reg
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    • S
      scottalanmiller @travisdh1
      last edited by

      @travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

      @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

      @travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

      @brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

      @travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

      @brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

      @travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

      Yeah. Being an old-time UNIX person I went with KVM. Stick with what you know best when all else is equal, and Hyper-V/KVM are quite close feature wise.

      Being a Linux noob, is what is pushing me to Hyper-V.

      Though none of my test machines will install it since 2016 requires SLAT. Again, what a pain.

      golf clap Good man.

      I was tempted to go KVM. But TBH I think the world of support is so much larger for Hyper-V.

      The amount of people using it is greater. The quality, well, that's another matter.

      KVM has more? I'd expect way more, especially as Amazon moves over.

      The amount of warm bodies, not the # of deployments that Xen and now KVM are way more.

      Oh okay, yes. Way more "users", not as many "uses."

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • H
        hobbit666 @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

        This is enormous news. This, more than anything, signals the end of the road for Xen. A very sad day.

        Oh man I only just really started using XEN better get that test server racked and KVM installed lol

        S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • S
          scottalanmiller @hobbit666
          last edited by

          @hobbit666 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

          @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

          This is enormous news. This, more than anything, signals the end of the road for Xen. A very sad day.

          Oh man I only just really started using XEN better get that test server racked and KVM installed lol

          Now is the chance to get ahead of the curve rather than behind it 🙂

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
          • S
            StorageNinja Vendor @Dashrender
            last edited by

            @dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

            @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

            If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.

            Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?

            You never question why for a Hyper-V Core required so much damn install space? The Management VM (DOM0) just runs headless.

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            • M
              matteo nunziati @StorageNinja
              last edited by

              @storageninja said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

              @dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

              @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

              If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.

              Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?

              You never question why for a Hyper-V Core required so much damn install space? The Management VM (DOM0) just runs headless.

              TBH if you look at really small partitions maybe Hyper-V requires one of the biggest (but not sure about KVM), anyway my hyper-v install is around 26GB. not a big deal .

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                Obsolesce @matteo nunziati
                last edited by Obsolesce

                @matteo-nunziati

                Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about <30gb for a hypervisor.

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                • S
                  scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
                  last edited by

                  @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                  @matteo-nunziati

                  Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about >30gb for a hypervisor.

                  Do you mean <30GB? Because at some point larger than 30GB, everyone cares. What point, I don't know, but at some point, for sure.

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                    Obsolesce @scottalanmiller
                    last edited by

                    @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                    @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                    @matteo-nunziati

                    Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about >30gb for a hypervisor.

                    Do you mean <30GB? Because at some point larger than 30GB, everyone cares. What point, I don't know, but at some point, for sure.

                    Yeah it was supposed to be less than, not greater.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • S
                      stacksofplates @matteo nunziati
                      last edited by stacksofplates

                      @matteo-nunziati said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                      @storageninja said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                      @dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                      @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                      If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.

                      Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?

                      You never question why for a Hyper-V Core required so much damn install space? The Management VM (DOM0) just runs headless.

                      TBH if you look at really small partitions maybe Hyper-V requires one of the biggest (but not sure about KVM), anyway my hyper-v install is around 26GB. not a big deal .

                      0_1510536176002_root.png

                      Reinstalled in Feb, so there have been some extras added. Plus it was installed with the hypervisor role from the ISO, not minimal and added KVM. So there are a few extras that aren't needed like gluster client, openscap, etc.

                      But OpenSCAP is helpful on the host because you can scan your VMs directly from the host without the software being in the VM.

                      black3dynamiteB M 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • black3dynamiteB
                        black3dynamite @stacksofplates
                        last edited by

                        @stacksofplates said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                        @matteo-nunziati said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                        @storageninja said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                        @dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                        @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                        If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.

                        Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?

                        You never question why for a Hyper-V Core required so much damn install space? The Management VM (DOM0) just runs headless.

                        TBH if you look at really small partitions maybe Hyper-V requires one of the biggest (but not sure about KVM), anyway my hyper-v install is around 26GB. not a big deal .

                        0_1510536176002_root.png

                        Reinstalled in Feb, so there have been some extras added. Plus it was installed with the hypervisor role from the ISO, not minimal and added KVM. So there are a few extras that aren't needed like gluster client, openscap, etc.

                        But OpenSCAP is helpful on the host because you can scan your VMs directly from the host without the software being in the VM.

                        Group install virtualization doesn’t install they same packages?

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • S
                          StorageNinja Vendor @scottalanmiller
                          last edited by

                          @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                          @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                          @matteo-nunziati

                          Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about >30gb for a hypervisor.

                          Do you mean <30GB? Because at some point larger than 30GB, everyone cares. What point, I don't know, but at some point, for sure.

                          It matters from a secondary standpoint of..

                          1. That's a lot of damn code. There are security implications of having that much to keep patched (more patch windows, more attack points).
                          2. If you do PXE/AutoDeploy scenarios it slows down your provisioning/boot time. (Can you even run Hyper-V in a supported, stateless PXE config?)
                          3. Lack of optimizations for embedded installs. It's also a symptom of Hyper-V not being really designed for an embedded install (I know some Nutanix guys tried it but kept burning out SATA DOMs). This is slightly less of a concern with stuff like BOSS modules now an option on 14Gen servers (still that's ~$250 extra per host).

                          You can get KVM pretty lean, and the ESXi 6.5 ISO weighs in at 324MB (of that the hypervisor is a little less than 1/2 of, the rest being tools images).

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                            Obsolesce @StorageNinja
                            last edited by

                            @storageninja said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                            @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                            @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                            @matteo-nunziati

                            Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about >30gb for a hypervisor.

                            Do you mean <30GB? Because at some point larger than 30GB, everyone cares. What point, I don't know, but at some point, for sure.

                            It matters from a secondary standpoint of..

                            1. That's a lot of damn code. There are security implications of having that much to keep patched (more patch windows, more attack points).
                            2. If you do PXE/AutoDeploy scenarios it slows down your provisioning/boot time. (Can you even run Hyper-V in a supported, stateless PXE config?)
                            3. Lack of optimizations for embedded installs. It's also a symptom of Hyper-V not being really designed for an embedded install (I know some Nutanix guys tried it but kept burning out SATA DOMs). This is slightly less of a concern with stuff like BOSS modules now an option on 14Gen servers (still that's ~$250 extra per host).

                            You can get KVM pretty lean, and the ESXi 6.5 ISO weighs in at 324MB (of that the hypervisor is a little less than 1/2 of, the rest being tools images).

                            All good points, for sure. I'm not arguing them.

                            My whole point is that (this being an SMB forum) we don't deploy hundreds or thousands of Hypervisors via PXE. We don't care if the hypervisor is 30GB, like, ever. Patching is never a problem in SMB because patching is done automatically and you have scheduled down time for that. If you can't have downtime for scheduled maintenance, you would have some kind of HA... because then it would make sense due to your business not being ablet to afford down time.

                            Sure, in large datacenter warehouses where I can see your examples mattering. Definitely, every GB matters. When dealing with thousands of identical systems and constantly deploying, every little thing in every aspect matters. But again, SMB here... try to keep your points in the appropriate context.

                            S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • S
                              scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
                              last edited by

                              @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                              Patching is never a problem in SMB because patching is done automatically and you have scheduled down time for that.

                              not if you read SW, you'd think no SMB knows to patch and those that do can never get downtime for them.

                              DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • DashrenderD
                                Dashrender @scottalanmiller
                                last edited by

                                @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                Patching is never a problem in SMB because patching is done automatically and you have scheduled down time for that.

                                not if you read SW, you'd think no SMB knows to patch and those that do can never get downtime for them.

                                That's because they don't want to work nights or weekends.

                                S R3dPand4R 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • S
                                  scottalanmiller @Dashrender
                                  last edited by

                                  @dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                  @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                  @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                  Patching is never a problem in SMB because patching is done automatically and you have scheduled down time for that.

                                  not if you read SW, you'd think no SMB knows to patch and those that do can never get downtime for them.

                                  That's because they don't want to work nights or weekends.

                                  FTFY

                                  O S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                  • O
                                    Obsolesce @scottalanmiller
                                    last edited by

                                    @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                    @dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                    @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                    @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                    Patching is never a problem in SMB because patching is done automatically and you have scheduled down time for that.

                                    not if you read SW, you'd think no SMB knows to patch and those that do can never get downtime for them.

                                    That's because they don't want to work nights or weekends.

                                    FTFY

                                    LOL

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • S
                                      StorageNinja Vendor @scottalanmiller
                                      last edited by

                                      @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                      @dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                      @scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                      @tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                      Patching is never a problem in SMB because patching is done automatically and you have scheduled down time for that.

                                      not if you read SW, you'd think no SMB knows to patch and those that do can never get downtime for them.

                                      That's because they don't want to Hire Indians to do it for you at night.

                                      FTFY

                                      FTFY.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • R3dPand4R
                                        R3dPand4 @Dashrender
                                        last edited by

                                        not if you read SW, you'd think no SMB knows to patch and those that do can never get downtime for them.

                                        That's because they don't want to work nights or weekends.

                                        If only there was a way to schedule updates to run outside of business hours.....

                                        S S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • S
                                          scottalanmiller @R3dPand4
                                          last edited by

                                          @r3dpand4 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                          not if you read SW, you'd think no SMB knows to patch and those that do can never get downtime for them.

                                          That's because they don't want to work nights or weekends.

                                          If only there was a way to schedule updates to run outside of business hours.....

                                          One can dream. Maybe in a far off, distant IT future....

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • S
                                            StorageNinja Vendor @R3dPand4
                                            last edited by

                                            @r3dpand4 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:

                                            not if you read SW, you'd think no SMB knows to patch and those that do can never get downtime for them.

                                            That's because they don't want to work nights or weekends.

                                            If only there was a way to schedule updates to run outside of business hours.....

                                            When you have to manufacture in Asia, and trucks back up if they can't print labels at 3AM US time you stop having "outside of business hours". An increasing amount of (even Small business's) don't have clear gaps, and you need someone to be ready to "fix" things if that patching fails, or brings something down.

                                            You can have monitoring systems that will trigger a TAS to page the on-call, but if that fails there is nothing worse than waking up at 7AM and discovering the entire office is dead in the water. Follow the sun operations are bleeding into more and more companies.

                                            S S 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote -1
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