Looking for virtualization advice
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@jaredbusch said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@john-nicholson said in Looking for virtualization advice:
That $20 hr was for a contractor (yah, that's insanely low labor considering someone's skimming something off it). Note I lice in Houston, a fairly cheap city and that rate is what you'd pay a supervisor at a gas Station. It's unskilled cannon fodder here at that rate. Sometimes you get lucky (I hired a guy who moved furniture at IKEA for that for helpdesk, he ended up being smart and had to give him a raise to 56K at the end of the year though to keep him around.
In this case It was an unskilled typist, with no formal equation we taught to do the copy pasta cleanups from some scripts we wrote to try to accelerate it.
How I got out of making $20 an hour (hell slightly less than that when I started in this field) was identifying the lowest skilled things I did and then finding the cheapest resource who could do it for me. If your the god of Oracle RAC but still changing printer toner management is going to pay you like a printer serf. Stop doing cheap labor and you'll get paid more (assuming there are more valuable things to do in the day, if not find a new job).
I don't judge the value of a human being based on how much they are paid (I just spent July mostly in countries where a lot are on less than $2 a day). I do judge the value of labor (I was a hiring manager and had to know fair market rates). If your un-happy getting paid $20 an hour that's honestly your issue. If your unhappy that I say it's a cheap rate for labor in the US in a metro area for someone handling work on an IT department that's just disagreeing with a fact. I hear that's popular these days, but I've never understood it as a concept.
I completely understand. I'm not saying I make that little. My issue lies with how you say things. You seem to always say it in a degrading manner when referencing someone making less than you or boasting how many millions you make. It's not about the 20/hr, or any specific number, or any specific job or task.
Since it does not seem that way to me, then I can only assume that you are the one with the hangup on things here.
You know what they say about assumption.
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@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@jaredbusch said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@john-nicholson said in Looking for virtualization advice:
That $20 hr was for a contractor (yah, that's insanely low labor considering someone's skimming something off it). Note I lice in Houston, a fairly cheap city and that rate is what you'd pay a supervisor at a gas Station. It's unskilled cannon fodder here at that rate. Sometimes you get lucky (I hired a guy who moved furniture at IKEA for that for helpdesk, he ended up being smart and had to give him a raise to 56K at the end of the year though to keep him around.
In this case It was an unskilled typist, with no formal equation we taught to do the copy pasta cleanups from some scripts we wrote to try to accelerate it.
How I got out of making $20 an hour (hell slightly less than that when I started in this field) was identifying the lowest skilled things I did and then finding the cheapest resource who could do it for me. If your the god of Oracle RAC but still changing printer toner management is going to pay you like a printer serf. Stop doing cheap labor and you'll get paid more (assuming there are more valuable things to do in the day, if not find a new job).
I don't judge the value of a human being based on how much they are paid (I just spent July mostly in countries where a lot are on less than $2 a day). I do judge the value of labor (I was a hiring manager and had to know fair market rates). If your un-happy getting paid $20 an hour that's honestly your issue. If your unhappy that I say it's a cheap rate for labor in the US in a metro area for someone handling work on an IT department that's just disagreeing with a fact. I hear that's popular these days, but I've never understood it as a concept.
I completely understand. I'm not saying I make that little. My issue lies with how you say things. You seem to always say it in a degrading manner when referencing someone making less than you or boasting how many millions you make. It's not about the 20/hr, or any specific number, or any specific job or task.
Since it does not seem that way to me, then I can only assume that you are the one with the hangup on things here.
You know what they say about assumption.
I do tend to agree that @John-Nicholson posts often mention money and how much he's getting. This particular post isn't one such post. And the benefits post was really asking about compensation, so it's kind of expected there.
But the reality is that this is an SMB forum for the most part. Sure there is a small handful of people in the Enterprise, or have been in the enterprise making hundreds of thousands or millions, but those dollars just aren't the norm around these parts.
As Scott's mentioned - If you are thigh well paid and are in IT, it's likely you would never visit a forum like ML as part of your day job because we have little to nothing to offer you. You area already probably as knowledgeable as most support staff at the vendor for whatever thing you're supporting, so it's likely there would be little to gain here.
I'm curious, is @John-Nicholson even in IT anymore? I can't quite tell from the conversations. It seems that he's more in a leadership role, but that might be a misunderstanding of what he's posting?
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@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@jaredbusch said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@john-nicholson said in Looking for virtualization advice:
That $20 hr was for a contractor (yah, that's insanely low labor considering someone's skimming something off it). Note I lice in Houston, a fairly cheap city and that rate is what you'd pay a supervisor at a gas Station. It's unskilled cannon fodder here at that rate. Sometimes you get lucky (I hired a guy who moved furniture at IKEA for that for helpdesk, he ended up being smart and had to give him a raise to 56K at the end of the year though to keep him around.
In this case It was an unskilled typist, with no formal equation we taught to do the copy pasta cleanups from some scripts we wrote to try to accelerate it.
How I got out of making $20 an hour (hell slightly less than that when I started in this field) was identifying the lowest skilled things I did and then finding the cheapest resource who could do it for me. If your the god of Oracle RAC but still changing printer toner management is going to pay you like a printer serf. Stop doing cheap labor and you'll get paid more (assuming there are more valuable things to do in the day, if not find a new job).
I don't judge the value of a human being based on how much they are paid (I just spent July mostly in countries where a lot are on less than $2 a day). I do judge the value of labor (I was a hiring manager and had to know fair market rates). If your un-happy getting paid $20 an hour that's honestly your issue. If your unhappy that I say it's a cheap rate for labor in the US in a metro area for someone handling work on an IT department that's just disagreeing with a fact. I hear that's popular these days, but I've never understood it as a concept.
I completely understand. I'm not saying I make that little. My issue lies with how you say things. You seem to always say it in a degrading manner when referencing someone making less than you or boasting how many millions you make. It's not about the 20/hr, or any specific number, or any specific job or task.
Since it does not seem that way to me, then I can only assume that you are the one with the hangup on things here.
You know what they say about assumption.
I do tend to agree that @John-Nicholson posts often mention money and how much he's getting. This particular post isn't one such post. And the benefits post was really asking about compensation, so it's kind of expected there.
But the reality is that this is an SMB forum for the most part. Sure there is a small handful of people in the Enterprise, or have been in the enterprise making hundreds of thousands or millions, but those dollars just aren't the norm around these parts.
Something I learned from being a group admin for Spiceworks for years is that enterprise types lurk heavily in SMB forums. They PM people, and when they post it's often under pseudonyms as they are a bit more easily spooked about revealing who they are, largely for fear of vendors deal registering things or stalking them once they learn they have the budget or need. When you control even something small like 100K in annual capital spend the vendors can get kinda crazy. While they may not purposely come to places like this, Google and odd questions will lead them here. For the longest time "HDS vs. Netapp" led you to a thread on Spiceworks I started. HDS and Netapp both have MASSIVE forums, but they are either largely ghost towns, or hidden from public view (or just have Awful SEO). Also just because a place is a SMB don't assume they have no budget or pay people peanuts. I consulted across plenty of SMB's who paid individual contributors six figures and spent millions a year on IT purchases. I actually kind of hate using the term "SMB" (and some vendors don't even use it internally in account classifications) because it is often associated with a pejorative image of rock farmers, in a 6 man office with 1 IT guy who removes virus's all day. This just isn't reality. Those rock farmers have real time bidding systems on their rocks, and drones that map their piles of rocks several times a day to update their inventory of their rock piles (I'm not joking, an actual company here locally does this). Inversely I consulted in enterprises where they clung to NT4, paper processes, and 10-year-old servers. I've seen companies with 10,000 employees require the CFO's signature to buy a brand new $2000 MacBook Pro they were so cheap on capex!
As Scott's mentioned - If you are thigh well paid and are in IT, it's likely you would never visit a forum like ML as part of your day job because we have little to nothing to offer you. You area already probably as knowledgeable as most support staff at the vendor for whatever thing you're supporting, so it's likely there would be little to gain here.
Even if your not in SMB IT, there's reasons to be at places like ML and SPiceworks.
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The lolz. There is some funny content here.
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SMB overlaps with home IT on vendors sometimes (Ubiquit was a great choice for my home router, and wifi and you will not find tips on how to configure them in more enterprise places)
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It's a forum. Most of the more enterprise conversations I have online are on Twitter, or Telegram or Slack. Forums have some old school charm in their permanence.
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To give back. Some people got their start in the SMB space in forums like this. Personally, If it wasn't for forums like this my career would have been vastly different (It's been something like 7 years since I met Scott at the first Spiceworks user group).
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An opportunity to argue with Scott. It's fun, you learn things in forming your arguments and it helps you sharpen your rhetoric.
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There's a lot more consistency of actors here than you'll find on places like Reddit. You can learn to understand who/what people are about etc. There's a fair amount of people on this community I've had a beer with over the years.
I'm curious, is @John-Nicholson even in IT anymore? I can't quite tell from the conversations. It seems that he's more in a leadership role, but that might be a misunderstanding of what he's posting?
He's still around the field. he stopped touching production a year and a half ago. He's clearly an individual contributor. If you go to VeeamOn, Dellworld, VMworld he'll buy you a drink and explain.
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Who get's to work in such a static environment where they aren't presented with new things constantly? Even if I knew everything there is to know at this exact moment, I could not keep up with the ever changing world. @scottalanmiller and @JaredBusch both post questions as well and they are making (or have made) more than most of us ever will. I don't think communities like this ever outlive their usefulness provided you have the right people in it.
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Until everyone in the world says "Well, I think we are at a good technological spot to stop. Let's halt all technological advances, at least in IT.", these forums will continue to be useful to everyone. I don't care how smart you are or how much you know. There are tons of benefits to being here. If you aren't dealing with some type of technology in life, at least you'll experiences it here or at least hear about it.
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did you quote the right thing there, Tim?
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@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
did you quote the right thing there, Tim?
I don't know why it does that sometimes. I won't quote anything, and it'll throw in something random from somewhere. If I don't pay attention, I'll submit it without noticing.
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@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
did you quote the right thing there, Tim?
I don't know why it does that sometimes. I won't quote anything, and it'll throw in something random from somewhere. If I don't pay attention, I'll submit it without noticing.
Yeah I've been getting that problem all day today. Click the reply button (not the quote button) and some random bit of gibberish comes along for the ride.
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@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
did you quote the right thing there, Tim?
I don't know why it does that sometimes. I won't quote anything, and it'll throw in something random from somewhere. If I don't pay attention, I'll submit it without noticing.
Yeah I've been getting that problem all day today. Click the reply button (not the quote button) and some random bit of gibberish comes along for the ride.
Sometimes it has to do with how you highlight certain sections of text. It doesn't even need to be highlighted when you hit the reply button.
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@coliver said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
did you quote the right thing there, Tim?
I don't know why it does that sometimes. I won't quote anything, and it'll throw in something random from somewhere. If I don't pay attention, I'll submit it without noticing.
Yeah I've been getting that problem all day today. Click the reply button (not the quote button) and some random bit of gibberish comes along for the ride.
Sometimes it has to do with how you highlight certain sections of text. It doesn't even need to be highlighted when you hit the reply button.
eh? I don't highlight - I simply click reply or quote.. in this case I hit quote, and luckily it brought everything..
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@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@coliver said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
did you quote the right thing there, Tim?
I don't know why it does that sometimes. I won't quote anything, and it'll throw in something random from somewhere. If I don't pay attention, I'll submit it without noticing.
Yeah I've been getting that problem all day today. Click the reply button (not the quote button) and some random bit of gibberish comes along for the ride.
Sometimes it has to do with how you highlight certain sections of text. It doesn't even need to be highlighted when you hit the reply button.
eh? I don't highlight - I simply click reply or quote.. in this case I hit quote, and luckily it brought everything..
Never had that issue. The highlighting thing as a feature if you have something highlighted and quick reply or close it will bring the highlighted information in
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@jaredbusch said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@coliver said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@tim_g said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@dashrender said in Looking for virtualization advice:
did you quote the right thing there, Tim?
I don't know why it does that sometimes. I won't quote anything, and it'll throw in something random from somewhere. If I don't pay attention, I'll submit it without noticing.
Yeah I've been getting that problem all day today. Click the reply button (not the quote button) and some random bit of gibberish comes along for the ride.
Sometimes it has to do with how you highlight certain sections of text. It doesn't even need to be highlighted when you hit the reply button.
eh? I don't highlight - I simply click reply or quote.. in this case I hit quote, and luckily it brought everything..
Never had that issue. The highlighting thing as a feature if you have something highlighted and quick reply or close it will bring the highlighted information in
cool, seems handy.
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@storageninja said in Looking for virtualization advice:
Something I learned from being a group admin for Spiceworks for years is that enterprise types lurk heavily in SMB forums.
Hey, shush your mouth. I don't lurk, I troll.
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@psx_defector said in Looking for virtualization advice:
@storageninja said in Looking for virtualization advice:
Something I learned from being a group admin for Spiceworks for years is that enterprise types lurk heavily in SMB forums.
Hey, shush your mouth. I don't lurk, I troll.
WAIT, PSX IS STILL A THING?!?
