Feedback on Resume
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We had that at my last company in the desktop support group. Management hired someone that looked good on paper, was a silver tongued devil, said all the right things, and management just glossed over.
When rubber met the road, the reality was he knew next to nothing, but he was hired as a tech level 2 (above me no less) and pawned all of his work off on me, mostly because he was unable to do it.
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@wirestyle22 Exactly why I said you should consider your audience. I don't know where you work now and I don't know what companies your applying at. I'm just saying if we're looking at a resume that said "senior petroleum logistics engineer" it's probably somebody that doesn't fit our culture.
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@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
Hence why looking at a title means literally nothing. Look at work experience and skills. Those will tell you more about someone then a title ever could.
This is kind of what I was getting at with my original comment, title means nothing to some people and everything to others
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@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can.
100% the opposite everywhere I've seen. Enterprise will can you for lying, SMBs demand that you lie. Some SMBs ignore titles, or claim to. But they love hearing things like "IT Manager", "IT Director" or CIO for someone who is just a normal, everyday IT generalist. It's the SMB and only in the SMB that I've ever seen titles used like this. Some enterprise somewhere uses false titles, of course, but by and large, it's always the SMB I've seen it in and not the enterprise. Partially because in the enterprise those titles HAVE to matter and in the SMB, we all know that the only job is "IT Generalist" so anything else is fake.
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@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
If somebody puts an outlandish title it likely means that they're coming from an environment we cant relate with or looking for a fluffer position that we aren't offering, that's why it could be seen as a negative. We work a lot in the automotive field, and it's pretty easy to spot somebody that just likes to progress through the ranks and may not actually bring much to the table.
Hence why looking at a title means literally nothing. Look at work experience and skills. Those will tell you more about someone then a title ever could.
It means a lot. People who lie about titles will lie about everything else. That's why we dont hire people using ridiculous titles on their resumes.
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@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can. This is what we look at every day sifting through resumes, but then again, we are essentially a mom and pop shop.
Seems like that should be the opposite. A mom and pop store shouldn't care about title they should care about work experience and skills. Actually no one should really be looking at a title it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the industry as a whole (outside of extremely large companies).
If I only took a job with people who understood this I'd be homeless though
That's Spiceworks talk there. IT isn't that bad. Bad companies are rampant, but mostly in the SMB. Companies can't get large and operate that way, it just doesn't work. They have to manage at least moderately well or they fail.
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@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
If somebody puts an outlandish title it likely means that they're coming from an environment we cant relate with or looking for a fluffer position that we aren't offering, that's why it could be seen as a negative. We work a lot in the automotive field, and it's pretty easy to spot somebody that just likes to progress through the ranks and may not actually bring much to the table.
Or just lying. Most people just lie, that's, I've found, by far the more common thing.
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@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
If somebody puts an outlandish title it likely means that they're coming from an environment we cant relate with or looking for a fluffer position that we aren't offering, that's why it could be seen as a negative. We work a lot in the automotive field, and it's pretty easy to spot somebody that just likes to progress through the ranks and may not actually bring much to the table.
How do you progress through the ranks if you have nothing to offer though
Huh? Through time and politics of course, that's how nearly all advancement takes place. What you have to offer is not of that much importance, especially in smaller shops. The smaller they are, the more likely that politics, nepotism, who you know and whatnot give you advancements and the less that quality of work does.
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@Dashrender said in Feedback on Resume:
We had that at my last company in the desktop support group. Management hired someone that looked good on paper, was a silver tongued devil, said all the right things, and management just glossed over.
When rubber met the road, the reality was he knew next to nothing, but he was hired as a tech level 2 (above me no less) and pawned all of his work off on me, mostly because he was unable to do it.
THe problem being, of course, bad management. That's the core.
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@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
If somebody puts an outlandish title it likely means that they're coming from an environment we cant relate with or looking for a fluffer position that we aren't offering, that's why it could be seen as a negative. We work a lot in the automotive field, and it's pretty easy to spot somebody that just likes to progress through the ranks and may not actually bring much to the table.
How do you progress through the ranks if you have nothing to offer though
Huh? Through time and politics of course, that's how nearly all advancement takes place. What you have to offer is not of that much importance, especially in smaller shops. The smaller they are, the more likely that politics, nepotism, who you know and whatnot give you advancements and the less that quality of work does.
The issue I have with this is many SMB's have little room for meaningful growth. Progression to a Management position is rather meaningless when your organization is so top heavy, that 80% of the staff have some title of "Manager"
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@DustinB3403 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
If somebody puts an outlandish title it likely means that they're coming from an environment we cant relate with or looking for a fluffer position that we aren't offering, that's why it could be seen as a negative. We work a lot in the automotive field, and it's pretty easy to spot somebody that just likes to progress through the ranks and may not actually bring much to the table.
How do you progress through the ranks if you have nothing to offer though
Huh? Through time and politics of course, that's how nearly all advancement takes place. What you have to offer is not of that much importance, especially in smaller shops. The smaller they are, the more likely that politics, nepotism, who you know and whatnot give you advancements and the less that quality of work does.
The issue I have with this is many SMB's have little room for meaningful growth. Progression to a Management position is rather meaningless when your organization is so top heavy, that 80% of the staff have some title of "Manager"
Yup, the CIO role I turned down recently was a CIO managing four managers and just two people doing all the work, one IT and one developer. Five managers to two workers, 5:2 ratio. And all in a company that needs less than one full time technical person! They could go down to a single part timer and run better.
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This kind of limited room (for meaningful growth) is a contributing reason that I often look for new work. Experience is a key factor to growing, and you often aren't going to get a lot of experience at a single job.
Also top-heavy SMB's who do this to make the organization look larger in general are dead end jobs. Which simply don't value the staff, and do odd things (like randomly hire people) for seemly no reason.
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@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can. This is what we look at every day sifting through resumes, but then again, we are essentially a mom and pop shop.
Seems like that should be the opposite. A mom and pop store shouldn't care about title they should care about work experience and skills. Actually no one should really be looking at a title it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the industry as a whole (outside of extremely large companies).
If I only took a job with people who understood this I'd be homeless though
That's Spiceworks talk there. IT isn't that bad. Bad companies are rampant, but mostly in the SMB. Companies can't get large and operate that way, it just doesn't work. They have to manage at least moderately well or they fail.
Right, but I have never worked for what you would consider a large company. Look at my resume (plus you know me better than anyone else on this website probably). I'm trying to educate myself to get into a larger company but I am not there yet.
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@DustinB3403 said in Feedback on Resume:
This kind of limited room (for meaningful growth) is a contributing reason that I often look for new work. Experience is a key factor to growing, and you often aren't going to get a lot of experience at a single job.
Also top-heavy SMB's who do this to make the organization look larger in general are dead end jobs. Which simply don't value the staff, and do odd things (like randomly hire people) for seemly no reason.
Just hte nature of SMB IT. Growth inevitably means moving on.
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@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can. This is what we look at every day sifting through resumes, but then again, we are essentially a mom and pop shop.
Seems like that should be the opposite. A mom and pop store shouldn't care about title they should care about work experience and skills. Actually no one should really be looking at a title it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the industry as a whole (outside of extremely large companies).
If I only took a job with people who understood this I'd be homeless though
That's Spiceworks talk there. IT isn't that bad. Bad companies are rampant, but mostly in the SMB. Companies can't get large and operate that way, it just doesn't work. They have to manage at least moderately well or they fail.
Right, but I have never worked for what you would consider a large company. Look at my resume. I'm trying to educate myself to get into a larger company but I am not there yet.
But "have never worked for" isn't relevant to the conversation, is it? Large companies are not "better than" the SMB. That, also, is Spiceworks talk.
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@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can. This is what we look at every day sifting through resumes, but then again, we are essentially a mom and pop shop.
Seems like that should be the opposite. A mom and pop store shouldn't care about title they should care about work experience and skills. Actually no one should really be looking at a title it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the industry as a whole (outside of extremely large companies).
If I only took a job with people who understood this I'd be homeless though
That's Spiceworks talk there. IT isn't that bad. Bad companies are rampant, but mostly in the SMB. Companies can't get large and operate that way, it just doesn't work. They have to manage at least moderately well or they fail.
Right, but I have never worked for what you would consider a large company. Look at my resume. I'm trying to educate myself to get into a larger company but I am not there yet.
But "have never worked for" isn't relevant to the conversation, is it? Large companies are not "better than" the SMB. That, also, is Spiceworks talk.
What does better mean in this context? Higher paying? I think they are better if that is what we are judging it off of
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@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can. This is what we look at every day sifting through resumes, but then again, we are essentially a mom and pop shop.
Seems like that should be the opposite. A mom and pop store shouldn't care about title they should care about work experience and skills. Actually no one should really be looking at a title it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the industry as a whole (outside of extremely large companies).
If I only took a job with people who understood this I'd be homeless though
That's Spiceworks talk there. IT isn't that bad. Bad companies are rampant, but mostly in the SMB. Companies can't get large and operate that way, it just doesn't work. They have to manage at least moderately well or they fail.
Right, but I have never worked for what you would consider a large company. Look at my resume. I'm trying to educate myself to get into a larger company but I am not there yet.
But "have never worked for" isn't relevant to the conversation, is it? Large companies are not "better than" the SMB. That, also, is Spiceworks talk.
If you flipped that statement SMB's are almost better because you could hide more awful "IT work"
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@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can. This is what we look at every day sifting through resumes, but then again, we are essentially a mom and pop shop.
Seems like that should be the opposite. A mom and pop store shouldn't care about title they should care about work experience and skills. Actually no one should really be looking at a title it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the industry as a whole (outside of extremely large companies).
If I only took a job with people who understood this I'd be homeless though
That's Spiceworks talk there. IT isn't that bad. Bad companies are rampant, but mostly in the SMB. Companies can't get large and operate that way, it just doesn't work. They have to manage at least moderately well or they fail.
Right, but I have never worked for what you would consider a large company. Look at my resume. I'm trying to educate myself to get into a larger company but I am not there yet.
But "have never worked for" isn't relevant to the conversation, is it? Large companies are not "better than" the SMB. That, also, is Spiceworks talk.
What does better mean in this context? Higher paying? I think they are better if that is what we are judging it off of
You can get more pay by simply moving to a different job. Most often that is where many people get substantial raises from.
Not from moving to a larger organization, but by simply changing jobs and demanding more for their time.
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@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can. This is what we look at every day sifting through resumes, but then again, we are essentially a mom and pop shop.
Seems like that should be the opposite. A mom and pop store shouldn't care about title they should care about work experience and skills. Actually no one should really be looking at a title it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the industry as a whole (outside of extremely large companies).
If I only took a job with people who understood this I'd be homeless though
That's Spiceworks talk there. IT isn't that bad. Bad companies are rampant, but mostly in the SMB. Companies can't get large and operate that way, it just doesn't work. They have to manage at least moderately well or they fail.
Right, but I have never worked for what you would consider a large company. Look at my resume. I'm trying to educate myself to get into a larger company but I am not there yet.
But "have never worked for" isn't relevant to the conversation, is it? Large companies are not "better than" the SMB. That, also, is Spiceworks talk.
What does better mean in this context? Higher paying? I think they are better if that is what we are judging it off of
I'm confused. Bigger doesn't imply anything like that. UNtil CIO of course, SMBs can't have senior CIOs, just makes no sense.
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@DustinB3403 said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@coliver said in Feedback on Resume:
@bnrstnr said in Feedback on Resume:
I think a lot of the title stuff depends on your audience. In my experience, giant corporations love the ridiculous titles, where in small business, a title could easily land your resume directly in the garbage can. This is what we look at every day sifting through resumes, but then again, we are essentially a mom and pop shop.
Seems like that should be the opposite. A mom and pop store shouldn't care about title they should care about work experience and skills. Actually no one should really be looking at a title it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the industry as a whole (outside of extremely large companies).
If I only took a job with people who understood this I'd be homeless though
That's Spiceworks talk there. IT isn't that bad. Bad companies are rampant, but mostly in the SMB. Companies can't get large and operate that way, it just doesn't work. They have to manage at least moderately well or they fail.
Right, but I have never worked for what you would consider a large company. Look at my resume. I'm trying to educate myself to get into a larger company but I am not there yet.
But "have never worked for" isn't relevant to the conversation, is it? Large companies are not "better than" the SMB. That, also, is Spiceworks talk.
What does better mean in this context? Higher paying? I think they are better if that is what we are judging it off of
You can get more pay by simply moving to a different job. Most often that is where many people get substantial raises from.
Not from moving to a larger organization, but by simply changing jobs and demanding more for their time.
In fact, often easier to move up in the SMB because the job hopping is a requirement that can't be avoided.
