SMB vs Enterprise
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@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@dafyre said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
But of course nobody focuses on what the actual amounts you pay for things are, they all focus on strictly the ~30-33%-ish taxes in Sweden for example, vs the 15-20% or whatever in the U.S.
Those sound like corporate, rather than income, tax rates.
Yeah. I'm paying ~35% of my check to Federal, State, and Local taxes.
You must include all of your healthcare costs if you are in the US as those are actually a federal tax now.
You also need to include whatever out of pocket expenses you pay for doctor and hospital visits, prescriptions, daycare/childcare, certain education expenses, etc. When you actually add all the things up that a typical family (with college education) pays for, you're much better off in some EU countries.
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@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
Well your wages in the U.S. to put you in the 52% bracket, would I'm sure be higher in Europe too.
No, it was definitely a percentage or two higher in the US for the same pay.
Didn't know that. Back when I was looking at things, it was a big difference. But I guess at some point it gets to the same, like when you compare cold temperatures in Fahrenheit and Celsius... in the negatives there is a point where they are the same
Yeah, I would actually have lowered my taxes moving to almost anywhere in the EU. Then gotten loads of benefits on top of paying fewer taxes. Only bad part is that the US looks to see what you pay in the EU and if it is not as high as in the US, you pay the difference to the US anyway. So you never actually get to lower it.
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@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@dafyre said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
But of course nobody focuses on what the actual amounts you pay for things are, they all focus on strictly the ~30-33%-ish taxes in Sweden for example, vs the 15-20% or whatever in the U.S.
Those sound like corporate, rather than income, tax rates.
Yeah. I'm paying ~35% of my check to Federal, State, and Local taxes.
You must include all of your healthcare costs if you are in the US as those are actually a federal tax now.
You also need to include whatever out of pocket expenses you pay for doctor and hospital visits, prescriptions, daycare/childcare, certain education expenses, etc. When you actually add all the things up that a typical family (with college education) pays for, you're much better off in some EU countries.
There's some out of pocket here too... but it's like 1 dollar. You can't count that.
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@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@dafyre said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
But of course nobody focuses on what the actual amounts you pay for things are, they all focus on strictly the ~30-33%-ish taxes in Sweden for example, vs the 15-20% or whatever in the U.S.
Those sound like corporate, rather than income, tax rates.
Yeah. I'm paying ~35% of my check to Federal, State, and Local taxes.
You must include all of your healthcare costs if you are in the US as those are actually a federal tax now.
You also need to include whatever out of pocket expenses you pay for doctor and hospital visits, prescriptions, daycare/childcare, certain education expenses, etc. When you actually add all the things up that a typical family (with college education) pays for, you're much better off in some EU countries.
You should add those when considering a cost of living comparison, but not necessarily in a tax calculation. The base insurance is a requirement (e.g. tax) but actually getting healthcare is not required (e.g. a needed cost, but not a tax.)
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@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@dafyre said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
But of course nobody focuses on what the actual amounts you pay for things are, they all focus on strictly the ~30-33%-ish taxes in Sweden for example, vs the 15-20% or whatever in the U.S.
Those sound like corporate, rather than income, tax rates.
Yeah. I'm paying ~35% of my check to Federal, State, and Local taxes.
You must include all of your healthcare costs if you are in the US as those are actually a federal tax now.
You also need to include whatever out of pocket expenses you pay for doctor and hospital visits, prescriptions, daycare/childcare, certain education expenses, etc. When you actually add all the things up that a typical family (with college education) pays for, you're much better off in some EU countries.
You should add those when considering a cost of living comparison, but not necessarily in a tax calculation. The base insurance is a requirement (e.g. tax) but actually getting healthcare is not required (e.g. a needed cost, but not a tax.)
Some U.S. companies provide healthcare cost-free to you, which is nice... but those are the exceptions and really don't apply to the majority. I'm trying to speak in general.
But yes you're right, that stuff is cost of living. The regular healthcare paycheck deductions are not and would be lumped in with the tax comparison.
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If you have children, it's crazy. In San Diego, for example, if you want your child in a mostly decent place while you work or whatever, it's minimum a grand a month, per child.
Free in Sweden. That crap can add up, fast, especially if you have multiple children.
This is an older article, but the basic points are pretty much on par: https://newrepublic.com/article/118294/us-should-copy-sweden-and-denmarks-work-family-policies
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@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
If you have children, it's crazy. In San Diego, for example, if you want your child in a mostly decent place while you work or whatever, it's minimum a grand a month, per child.
Free in Sweden. That crap can add up, fast, especially if you have multiple children.
This is an older article, but the basic points are pretty much on par: https://newrepublic.com/article/118294/us-should-copy-sweden-and-denmarks-work-family-policies
We're at $50/day in upstate NY... one of the poorest counties in the state actually. So if we sent Emilia full time it would be $1,000 a month. Granted this is on the higher end of daycare around here. They do a lot of early childhood and pre-k education. The average is ~$35-40/day
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@coliver said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
If you have children, it's crazy. In San Diego, for example, if you want your child in a mostly decent place while you work or whatever, it's minimum a grand a month, per child.
Free in Sweden. That crap can add up, fast, especially if you have multiple children.
This is an older article, but the basic points are pretty much on par: https://newrepublic.com/article/118294/us-should-copy-sweden-and-denmarks-work-family-policies
We're at $50/day in upstate NY... one of the poorest counties in the state actually. So if we sent Emilia full time it would be $1,000 a month. Granted this is on the higher end of daycare around here. They do a lot of early childhood and pre-k education. The average is ~$35-40/day
Yeah exactly.
We'd love to do that, but can't afford child care. So I work during the day, my wife stays home. And she does night classes for her degree, while I am home with the children.
Our oldest child starts kindergarten this fall, so it'll hopefully be a little easier for her to study during the day. But still, I wish there was a good place to take them for free.
Though, it's good for the children to be with their parents more instead of away from them all day. So that part is great.
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Meanwhile in EU, they pretty much force you to be home with your children, with pay... and still give great childcare, "free". Free being you pay higher taxes, but that pays for itself so easy!
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@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
Meanwhile in EU, they pretty much force you to be home with your children, with pay... and still give great childcare, "free". Free being you pay higher taxes, but that pays for itself so easy!
That very few people have kids makes that a lot easier.
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@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
Meanwhile in EU, they pretty much force you to be home with your children, with pay... and still give great childcare, "free". Free being you pay higher taxes, but that pays for itself so easy!
That very few people have kids makes that a lot easier.
Well someone's having kids... the world population is skyrocketing.
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@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
Meanwhile in EU, they pretty much force you to be home with your children, with pay... and still give great childcare, "free". Free being you pay higher taxes, but that pays for itself so easy!
That very few people have kids makes that a lot easier.
Well someone's having kids... the world population is skyrocketing.
Not Europe, Japan, or the US. Even China and India's population explosion are both slowing down.
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@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
Meanwhile in EU, they pretty much force you to be home with your children, with pay... and still give great childcare, "free". Free being you pay higher taxes, but that pays for itself so easy!
That very few people have kids makes that a lot easier.
Well someone's having kids... the world population is skyrocketing.
Not the EU, like Japan the population there is shrinking. Much of Europe is going through a population crash, as is Japan, which is causing some panic. Places like Germany and Italy actually talk often about how the entire concept of seeing children has changed. They just aren't there, kids basically don't exist. The birth rate has dropped to an insanely low level. That's why the governments are doing so much to encourage people to have kids, the population is actually at risk of attritioning out.
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@coliver said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
Meanwhile in EU, they pretty much force you to be home with your children, with pay... and still give great childcare, "free". Free being you pay higher taxes, but that pays for itself so easy!
That very few people have kids makes that a lot easier.
Well someone's having kids... the world population is skyrocketing.
Not Europe, Japan, or the US. Even China and India's population explosion are both slowing down.
US still is. And Eastern Europe outside of the EU still is. And a few isolated spots inside the EU, but very few. But Japan, EU and Singapore are all in heavily negative growth.
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The EU is offsetting this by taking insane numbers of immigrants to keep the population on an even keel, but it is resulting in a dramatic change as to the makeup of the region as one group soars in numbers and the traditional one collapses.
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@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
The EU is offsetting this by taking insane numbers of immigrants to keep the population on an even keel, but it is resulting in a dramatic change as to the makeup of the region as one group soars in numbers and the traditional one collapses.
This also drastically changes the culture in those areas, basically killing them in a completely different way.
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@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@coliver said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
Meanwhile in EU, they pretty much force you to be home with your children, with pay... and still give great childcare, "free". Free being you pay higher taxes, but that pays for itself so easy!
That very few people have kids makes that a lot easier.
Well someone's having kids... the world population is skyrocketing.
Not Europe, Japan, or the US. Even China and India's population explosion are both slowing down.
US still is. And Eastern Europe outside of the EU still is. And a few isolated spots inside the EU, but very few. But Japan, EU and Singapore are all in heavily negative growth.
What do you mean the US still is? The US has been barely maintaining replenishment rate for decades. The current official number is below replenishment rate at 1.86.
The US has been growing only through immigration for a long time.
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@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@coliver said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
@Tim_G said in SMB vs Enterprise:
Meanwhile in EU, they pretty much force you to be home with your children, with pay... and still give great childcare, "free". Free being you pay higher taxes, but that pays for itself so easy!
That very few people have kids makes that a lot easier.
Well someone's having kids... the world population is skyrocketing.
Not Europe, Japan, or the US. Even China and India's population explosion are both slowing down.
US still is. And Eastern Europe outside of the EU still is. And a few isolated spots inside the EU, but very few. But Japan, EU and Singapore are all in heavily negative growth.
Only Japan is in negative growth for a country, because Japan has almost no immigration of any kind.
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@scottalanmiller said in SMB vs Enterprise:
So the father/mother
you have to declare which of the parents wants how many months (max cumulative is 9 if I'm correct), then the employer HAS to pay full salary to that parant, no way out.
after the 9 months you can ask for extra but your salary is halved or less. the employer -in theory- can't say no.
also if your child has a recognized handicap you have extra months and extra hours life long util your child ages up to 18.
mine is a deaf daughter so my wife has got a lot of extra timing in the early years. At the time I was a consultant so no paternity, just stay at home or get the salary... -
the biggest issue here is the following:
average taxes in italy is 30-35%. retirements "taxes" are varying depending your kind of activity but stay around 20-30%. Overall we are around 50-60% in taxes. usually more on the 50% side. just consider that I've a really good salary and if you look at how much my company has to pay and how much I receive we have something like 50% is mine 50% is taxes for services or retirement.
Then retirement will be re-taxed at the usage time by 30-35%.It should include everything but state is defaulting (slowly) here and there is a lot of mafia/corruption. therefore you end up using a lot of private or mixed structures. So you pay part of medical expenses on-demand, you could pay school, and so on.
to have a proper life and a house both parents have to work full time. In Italy welfare is weak so your childrens has to stay a lot with grandparents to fill the time hole between school timing and work timing.
therefore, having so small time to dedicate to childrens you end up having a few: I've just one and constantly fell I'm not dedicating her enough time.
Scandinavian countries or middle europe countries are better in this.
