Caching Needs and SSDs
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@Tim_G said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Good performance? You mean best performance. You're still getting much better performance than just having HDDs.
If you consider HDDs a base line. But I don't, I consider SSD a baseline today. And by good performance, I mean reasonable performance for the investment. Just like straight HDDs are pathetically slow without cache by our modern standards, so are SSDs.
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@Tim_G said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
You can have a really nice performing system with a H330, SSD cache, and HDD storage volume, that costs a lot less than your "best" performing system.
Why do you feel it will cost less? And more importantly, why do you feel it will be cost effective? And it's not JUST performance, it's also killing the SSDs.
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@Tim_G said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Enterprise SSDs have a crazy long life and you aren't beating them up at all on a system setup like that... if it was used for some really crazy throughput, it would look a lot different. Even using them as a cache (in normal use cases), they will still most likely out-live their life expectancy, or be replaced through your dell warranty if they do go early.
True, but it is still a lot of increased risk for almost no cost savings.
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Things like databases feel the caching the most. Rapid small writes.
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@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Things like databases feel the caching the most. Rapid small writes.
That's why if you are running a database or other heavier IOP intensive applications, you wouldn't choose the H330. You'd put in some more money and do it right for the job.
it's also killing the SSDs.
It depends on the load, that's my point. I'm basing this on the fact that the engineer building the server is buying the right parts for the load, for the right costs.
But a H730p is a lot more money than a H330. That costs more than replacing an SSD 8 years down the road... which would have most likely needed replacement even with caching.
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@Tim_G said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
But a H730p is a lot more money than a H330. That costs more than replacing an SSD 8 years down the road... which would have most likely needed replacement even with caching.
Haven't looked, what what is the price difference? It's bigger than just cache, though, one is hardware RAID and one is software, as well.
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Just looked on xByte, the price delta is $230. And that's for the big 2GB cache model.
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@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@JaredBusch said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Also, the need for the battery went away long ago. That's a 2000's problem.
Do what? This was a standard feature as recently as 2012 on the Dell T600 line.
Standard as a cheaper downgrade, right?
Standard as in it was the "Dell Recommended" option at the time.
And it looks like it was 2011.
And it looks like the R720xd I purchased from XByte to replace that server has the PERC H710P with a battery.
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I feel like our machines in the 2000s from HP started shipping with NVRAM. It was close to the 2000s at the least.
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@JaredBusch said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@JaredBusch said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Also, the need for the battery went away long ago. That's a 2000's problem.
Do what? This was a standard feature as recently as 2012 on the Dell T600 line.
Standard as a cheaper downgrade, right?
Standard as in it was the "Dell Recommended" option at the time.
And it looks like it was 2011.
And it looks like the R720xd I purchased from XByte to replace that server has the PERC H710P with a battery.
This page here says it uses NVCache. Why does it have a battery?
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@Tim_G said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@JaredBusch said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@JaredBusch said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Also, the need for the battery went away long ago. That's a 2000's problem.
Do what? This was a standard feature as recently as 2012 on the Dell T600 line.
Standard as a cheaper downgrade, right?
Standard as in it was the "Dell Recommended" option at the time.
And it looks like it was 2011.
And it looks like the R720xd I purchased from XByte to replace that server has the PERC H710P with a battery.
This page here says it uses NVCache. Why does it have a battery?
Don't ask me, I am just the consumer from that point of view.
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@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Just looked on xByte, the price delta is $230. And that's for the big 2GB cache model.
Considering the cost of the storage, $230 is nothing, and totally worth the cost for the benefit.
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@Dashrender said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Just looked on xByte, the price delta is $230. And that's for the big 2GB cache model.
Considering the cost of the storage, $230 is nothing, and totally worth the cost for the benefit.
That's my thought. It's a rare use case where the speed and protection that this adds, along with blind swap and upward system compatibility with all enterprise platforms, is a pretty big deal. Plus it offloads work from the main CPUs, which is minor.
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@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@Dashrender said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Just looked on xByte, the price delta is $230. And that's for the big 2GB cache model.
Considering the cost of the storage, $230 is nothing, and totally worth the cost for the benefit.
That's my thought. It's a rare use case where the speed and protection that this adds, along with blind swap and upward system compatibility with all enterprise platforms, is a pretty big deal. Plus it offloads work from the main CPUs, which is minor.
I was going by buying it new on a new Dell server through Dell so the whole thing is covered by their warranty. According to just the regular site, it's over $400 more than the H330. I normally wouldn't buy a new server from Dell, and then get the RAID Controller through a 3rd party.
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@Tim_G said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@Dashrender said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
Just looked on xByte, the price delta is $230. And that's for the big 2GB cache model.
Considering the cost of the storage, $230 is nothing, and totally worth the cost for the benefit.
That's my thought. It's a rare use case where the speed and protection that this adds, along with blind swap and upward system compatibility with all enterprise platforms, is a pretty big deal. Plus it offloads work from the main CPUs, which is minor.
I was going by buying it new on a new Dell server through Dell so the whole thing is covered by their warranty. According to just the regular site, it's over $1000 more than the H330. I normally wouldn't buy a new server from Dell, and then get the RAID Controller through a 3rd party.
I would never buy direct from Dell, either.
Why would you buy from dell instead of xByte?
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@Tim_G whole thing is warrantied through xByte too.
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@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@Tim_G whole thing is warrantied through xByte too.
I don't know... I guess if xByte sells everything Dell sells, but for half the price, there's no reason to buy through Dell as far as I can tell, as long as you are getting the same warranties and support that Dell offers. Perhaps Dell should just shut down their online store and redirect to xByte IMHO.
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But hey, now I know! I suppose with xByte, no need to choose a H330 if you can get the best there is for only $200 more.
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Benefits of being part of these communities... always learning new things!
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@Tim_G said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@scottalanmiller said in Caching Needs and SSDs:
@Tim_G whole thing is warrantied through xByte too.
I don't know... I guess if xByte sells everything Dell sells, but for half the price, there's no reason to buy through Dell as far as I can tell, as long as you are getting the same warranties and support that Dell offers. Perhaps Dell should just shut down their online store and redirect to xByte IMHO.
They are both a normal dell reseller and a refurb dell shop. The refurb have warranties and are "new" but like open box that can't legally be called new. But not used.
