Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course
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@Reid-Cooper said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
I am a bit curious as well. If you don't know any programming, what are you doing in a comp sci classroom?
Learning programming?
I understand the utility of teaching JavaScript as an intro to CS, but I'm curious why nobody ever chooses plain old C anymore. Why not start off with C and then transition to Java, C++, C#, etc...? I mean... structurally they all branch from C right? Why not build a halfway decent foundation in it first?
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@scottalanmiller I think this is really odd as well... but I also think Stanford is probably not wrong... they have a methodology. So this makes me think where is computer science heading? Are they just going to disassociate with the eve class languages at some point? Is this not going to be as big of a deal to learn about? I am sure it still will be relevant still, but is this going more towards the darker side of computer science for real programming languages versus scripting or are they just trying to get students used to the semantics of programming before introducing to the more difficult concepts? I think that actually could make some sense, because there are a ton of real applicable things you can do with just the knowledge of javascript and you don't really need to understand bytes of data anymore and how languages deal with memory as much... unless you are a super engineer. I wish my first programming class was javascript instead of Java, but then again I learned a ton from that Java class but never ever used it ever again.
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@TeleFox said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@scottalanmiller I think this is really odd as well... but I also think Stanford is probably not wrong... they have a methodology.
Do they? They don't require their entering students to have ANY programming experience. That means that their program is for people who are trying to determine if they are interested in or suitable for computer science and not for serious programmers. Their methodology might be solid, but it doesn't lead to professional programmers. Their methodology is for milking students for money, whether or not they get a useful education.
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Stamford is also one of the schools marketing CS as an IT skill. Saying that their CS students are moving into high-end IT roles.
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@coliver said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
Stamford is also one of the schools marketing CS as an IT skill. Saying that their CS students are moving into high-end IT roles.
LOL, they are no longer on my "serious school" list.
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I think Python is showing a lot of strength as a intro language as well, and it may come from a scripting background so to speak, but seems full featured enough to be easy to introduce (Scratch is based on it) and used in more sophisticated settings.
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@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
I think Python is showing a lot of strength as a intro language as well, and it may come from a scripting background so to speak, but seems full featured enough to be easy to introduce (Scratch is based on it) and used in more sophisticated settings.
If you're in a Unix environment, absolutely. However, if it is a Windows environment, then I would suggest PowerShell.
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@nerdydad
I concur. Powershell is insanely important to any Windows experience. I was speaking to the idea of a SINGLE language for an intro CS course. I suggested it since Python is platform independent to a large degree and IMHO superior to JavaScript for filling that role. Personally, I agree that we should just get back to C. C is the core language for so many things, and even if you extend IT down into the Internet of Things and microcontrollers etc. it is still extremely relevant. -
@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@nerdydad
I concur. Powershell is insanely important to any Windows experience. I was speaking to the idea of a SINGLE language for an intro CS course. I suggested it since Python is platform independent to a large degree and IMHO superior to JavaScript for filling that role. Personally, I agree that we should just get back to C. C is the core language for so many things, and even if you extend IT down into the Internet of Things and microcontrollers etc. it is still extremely relevant.There are plenty of reasons why javascript shouldn't be used here. Python I wouldn't see as bad, nor java.
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@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@nerdydad
I concur. Powershell is insanely important to any Windows experience. I was speaking to the idea of a SINGLE language for an intro CS course. I suggested it since Python is platform independent to a large degree and IMHO superior to JavaScript for filling that role. Personally, I agree that we should just get back to C. C is the core language for so many things, and even if you extend IT down into the Internet of Things and microcontrollers etc. it is still extremely relevant.Ironically my intro course was C++. Luckily I had been coding in C++ for a decade at that point so I ended up teaching it but man did that make people suffer lol.
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@quixoticjeremy said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@nerdydad
I concur. Powershell is insanely important to any Windows experience. I was speaking to the idea of a SINGLE language for an intro CS course. I suggested it since Python is platform independent to a large degree and IMHO superior to JavaScript for filling that role. Personally, I agree that we should just get back to C. C is the core language for so many things, and even if you extend IT down into the Internet of Things and microcontrollers etc. it is still extremely relevant.Ironically my intro course was C++. Luckily I had been coding in C++ for a decade at that point so I ended up teaching it but man did that make people suffer lol.
My intro was Java. I did a advanced level CS C++ course in grad school... I barely passed that class.
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Isn't Java the primary android development language?
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I did Java and hated it. I passed with a B in all of the classes, but, did I hate it.
I would stick with an interpreted language as it teaches exactly what you are trying to teach, how computer understands programs. Therefore, I would go Python.
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@coliver said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@quixoticjeremy said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@nerdydad
I concur. Powershell is insanely important to any Windows experience. I was speaking to the idea of a SINGLE language for an intro CS course. I suggested it since Python is platform independent to a large degree and IMHO superior to JavaScript for filling that role. Personally, I agree that we should just get back to C. C is the core language for so many things, and even if you extend IT down into the Internet of Things and microcontrollers etc. it is still extremely relevant.Ironically my intro course was C++. Luckily I had been coding in C++ for a decade at that point so I ended up teaching it but man did that make people suffer lol.
My intro was Java. I did a advanced level CS C++ course in grad school... I barely passed that class.
Java really is a good intro. C++ is very powerful but it makes the developer manually handle everything this really trips people up (especially when it comes to memory management). The usual result of an intro C++ course is just one long list of memory leaks in every assignment.
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@black3dynamite said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
Isn't Java the primary android development language?
Well, not really. Java is the primary one for doing "native" apps. But the vast majority of apps on Android are JavaScript.
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@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
I think Python is showing a lot of strength as a intro language as well, and it may come from a scripting background so to speak, but seems full featured enough to be easy to introduce (Scratch is based on it) and used in more sophisticated settings.
It's perfect, lets you do anything on a technical level while not imposing layers of crap that distract you from the actual learning.
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@nerdydad said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
I think Python is showing a lot of strength as a intro language as well, and it may come from a scripting background so to speak, but seems full featured enough to be easy to introduce (Scratch is based on it) and used in more sophisticated settings.
If you're in a Unix environment, absolutely. However, if it is a Windows environment, then I would suggest PowerShell.
No no. Python is equally applicable in both. PowerShell has no place whatsoever in any CS or programming or software engineering courseware. Shells are not for CS use, they are special, crippled languages for the sole purpose of managing and maintaining an operating system. PS is a horrible language with all of the negatives of Java and none of the positives.
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@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@nerdydad
I concur. Powershell is insanely important to any Windows experience. I was speaking to the idea of a SINGLE language for an intro CS course. I suggested it since Python is platform independent to a large degree and IMHO superior to JavaScript for filling that role. Personally, I agree that we should just get back to C. C is the core language for so many things, and even if you extend IT down into the Internet of Things and microcontrollers etc. it is still extremely relevant.But if doing CS on Windows (why would someone do this) you'd still do Python.
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@scottalanmiller said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@nerdydad said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
I think Python is showing a lot of strength as a intro language as well, and it may come from a scripting background so to speak, but seems full featured enough to be easy to introduce (Scratch is based on it) and used in more sophisticated settings.
If you're in a Unix environment, absolutely. However, if it is a Windows environment, then I would suggest PowerShell.
No no. Python is equally applicable in both. PowerShell has no place whatsoever in any CS or programming or software engineering courseware. Shells are not for CS use, they are special, crippled languages for the sole purpose of managing and maintaining an operating system. PS is a horrible language with all of the negatives of Java and none of the positives.
I never touched powershell in regards to anything SE oriented. Only on the IT side of my experience.
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@quixoticjeremy said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@worden2 said in Stanford Removes Java in Favor of JavaScript in Intro to Computer Science Course:
@nerdydad
I concur. Powershell is insanely important to any Windows experience. I was speaking to the idea of a SINGLE language for an intro CS course. I suggested it since Python is platform independent to a large degree and IMHO superior to JavaScript for filling that role. Personally, I agree that we should just get back to C. C is the core language for so many things, and even if you extend IT down into the Internet of Things and microcontrollers etc. it is still extremely relevant.There are plenty of reasons why javascript shouldn't be used here. Python I wouldn't see as bad, nor java.
Java over JS for sure. Python is uniquely really perfect for this. Anything running on the JRE or .NET runtimes, or anything compiled are unnecessarily cumbersome. Perl is a hot mess. Ruby is far too unique. JS has no REPL and running on Node is insane for new users. Tcl is out of use. Python really stands alone in this field.
