Solved Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.
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By the way, I was not aware that Microsoft server license for second server is required.
So, following will be new expenses, if I plan :
- New server (for second one)
- Veeam (or any software)
- Microsoft server license
Am I correct ?
Of course, my time to learn, test and implement
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
This is my future plan to setup Windows Server Redundancy ( DC+File Server).
Go back and decide if you need redundancy from a business point of view.
I believe, Yes.
For Management : Minimized Downtime
For IT : Peace of MindThat's never how you should look at it.
For business: Whatever makes the money
IT: Whatever is good for the business -
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
For Management : Minimized Downtime
Minimizing downtime is not a business goal. Making the most money, is. If minimizing downtime loses the company money, IT has failed at its job.
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
- Even if it's expensive, I just wanted to propose to my management, it's different thing, if they don't accept it. At least, I will not get blamed for long downtime (if it happens), because I proposed, they didn't accepted it, so their problem
You should only propose it if you have run the financial numbers and know if it is a good idea for the business or not. That's IT's job, to figure out which way is better for the business.
- Even if it's expensive, I just wanted to propose to my management, it's different thing, if they don't accept it. At least, I will not get blamed for long downtime (if it happens), because I proposed, they didn't accepted it, so their problem
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Honestly, IMO, from what little we know of the OP's environment, he does not need replication either. Just a single server and a backup.
I see.
Actually I have inquired with our management people about the "acceptable downtime for server", they said "one day" is okay. Here according to management (aka user) is meant for File Server and as you know, they are not aware of what DC, DNS etc. are.
Most of our production work depends on File Server, and based on above info. acceptable downtime for File Server will one day.
And for any hardware failure, the repair service will be next working day. The vendor from whom we have warranty tie up are working 5 days a week and we are working 6 days a week. If any failure happens at last working day on the week and spare part is not available immediately with them, we may consider around "3 days downtime for server to come up"
And you know, how the situation of IT guyz in this process.
"So I am thinking of Server Redundancy, for company benefit" and of course "to have piece of mind for myself
"Do you need the server itself to be up though? In your situation if I was going to have extended outage, I'd grab a PC with enough storage and install Hyper-v and then restore my data to that. Or look at a better warranty, like 4/6 hour response. That would be less expensive than a whole other server and one less box to worry about, that much less power usage, that much less worry about licensing, etc.
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Assuming your current server license is 2008 or newer, you get two VMs on one host.
With your current setup it sounds like you are using and services on a single install of Windows server, so you can move that to a VM, then create a second VM on that same host, install Veeam to it. I'd purchase a 2/4 drive NAS for the backup target.
You could do this all on your current server assuming is has enough resources (CPU, RAM, storage). Then purchase Veeam essentials ($850ish), NAS and drives ($1000ish).
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
This is my future plan to setup Windows Server Redundancy ( DC+File Server).
Go back and decide if you need redundancy from a business point of view.
I believe, Yes.
For Management : Minimized Downtime
For IT : Peace of MindThat's never how you should look at it.
For business: Whatever makes the money
IT: Whatever is good for the businessMaybe I was wrong at "For IT: Peace of Mind"
As I said, our end-users depends a lot on File Server. If File Server is not available, they can't do their work almost (lets say 70%). So if they don't do work for long, their projects will get delayed, and for sure it will effect production.
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
This is my future plan to setup Windows Server Redundancy ( DC+File Server).
Go back and decide if you need redundancy from a business point of view.
I believe, Yes.
For Management : Minimized Downtime
For IT : Peace of MindThat's never how you should look at it.
For business: Whatever makes the money
IT: Whatever is good for the businessMaybe I was wrong at "For IT: Peace of Mind"
As I said, our end-users depends a lot on File Server. If File Server is not available, they can't do their work almost (lets say 70%). So if they don't do work for long, their projects will get delayed, and for sure it will effect production.
Of course. But this is a business concern, not a technical one. If the business says they can afford 1 day of full downtime with few issues, spending money to reduce much below that mark is directly against IT's mission.
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
This is my future plan to setup Windows Server Redundancy ( DC+File Server).
Go back and decide if you need redundancy from a business point of view.
I believe, Yes.
For Management : Minimized Downtime
For IT : Peace of MindThat's never how you should look at it.
For business: Whatever makes the money
IT: Whatever is good for the businessMaybe I was wrong at "For IT: Peace of Mind"
As I said, our end-users depends a lot on File Server. If File Server is not available, they can't do their work almost (lets say 70%). So if they don't do work for long, their projects will get delayed, and for sure it will effect production.
That's all good but unless you are putting that downtime into terms of money, you are acting emotionally and don't know the actual value of protecting against an outage. Any redundancy purchased should always, no exception, have a cost analysis that shows why it is being purchased. Sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is really hard. But if no one is giving you those numbers, you can pretty safely guess that the downtime isn't a big deal.
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@Dashrender said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
This is my future plan to setup Windows Server Redundancy ( DC+File Server).
Go back and decide if you need redundancy from a business point of view.
I believe, Yes.
For Management : Minimized Downtime
For IT : Peace of MindThat's never how you should look at it.
For business: Whatever makes the money
IT: Whatever is good for the businessMaybe I was wrong at "For IT: Peace of Mind"
As I said, our end-users depends a lot on File Server. If File Server is not available, they can't do their work almost (lets say 70%). So if they don't do work for long, their projects will get delayed, and for sure it will effect production.
Of course. But this is a business concern, not a technical one. If the business says they can afford 1 day of full downtime with few issues, spending money to reduce much below that mark is directly against IT's mission.
Right. The only thing that IT should be doing is getting the numbers from the business and supplying the cost of what it takes to mitigate it and how well that mitigation should work. This is 100%, no exceptions, a math problem and if no math is being done, no one has even started evaluating what the need will be.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@Dashrender said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
This is my future plan to setup Windows Server Redundancy ( DC+File Server).
Go back and decide if you need redundancy from a business point of view.
I believe, Yes.
For Management : Minimized Downtime
For IT : Peace of MindThat's never how you should look at it.
For business: Whatever makes the money
IT: Whatever is good for the businessMaybe I was wrong at "For IT: Peace of Mind"
As I said, our end-users depends a lot on File Server. If File Server is not available, they can't do their work almost (lets say 70%). So if they don't do work for long, their projects will get delayed, and for sure it will effect production.
Of course. But this is a business concern, not a technical one. If the business says they can afford 1 day of full downtime with few issues, spending money to reduce much below that mark is directly against IT's mission.
Right. The only thing that IT should be doing is getting the numbers from the business and supplying the cost of what it takes to mitigate it and how well that mitigation should work. This is 100%, no exceptions, a math problem and if no math is being done, no one has even started evaluating what the need will be.
Okay. I will take help from Management to do maths about Redundancy requirement.
Let's assume, Server Redundancy is necessary after doing maths, could you please advice which one option for Server Redundancy is better ?
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@Dashrender said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
This is my future plan to setup Windows Server Redundancy ( DC+File Server).
Go back and decide if you need redundancy from a business point of view.
I believe, Yes.
For Management : Minimized Downtime
For IT : Peace of MindThat's never how you should look at it.
For business: Whatever makes the money
IT: Whatever is good for the businessMaybe I was wrong at "For IT: Peace of Mind"
As I said, our end-users depends a lot on File Server. If File Server is not available, they can't do their work almost (lets say 70%). So if they don't do work for long, their projects will get delayed, and for sure it will effect production.
Of course. But this is a business concern, not a technical one. If the business says they can afford 1 day of full downtime with few issues, spending money to reduce much below that mark is directly against IT's mission.
Right. The only thing that IT should be doing is getting the numbers from the business and supplying the cost of what it takes to mitigate it and how well that mitigation should work. This is 100%, no exceptions, a math problem and if no math is being done, no one has even started evaluating what the need will be.
Okay. I will take help from Management to do maths about Redundancy requirement.
Let's assume, Server Redundancy is necessary after doing maths, could you please advice which one option for Server Redundancy is better ?
Well that would involve other pieces. As stated before, if you are going to purchase Veeam for backups, then Veeam is better for the extra features such as alerting.
If you go with some other method of backup, that does not have Replication tools alos, then just user Hyper-V replication. it works well.
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Yup, you'd be back to something like Hyper-V Replication (the simple way) or using a more complex tool like Starwind. Either way, you have a free storage clustering option.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Yup, you'd be back to something like Hyper-V Replication (the simple way) or using a more complex tool like Starwind. Either way, you have a free storage clustering option.
Hyper-V replica is not clustering.
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@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Yup, you'd be back to something like Hyper-V Replication (the simple way) or using a more complex tool like Starwind. Either way, you have a free storage clustering option.
Hyper-V replica is not clustering.
Sorry, wrong term. It's a "set".
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Okay. I will take help from Management to do maths about Redundancy requirement.
Let's assume, Server Redundancy is necessary after doing maths, could you please advice which one option for Server Redundancy is better ?What kind of redundancy do you need? RAID gives you redundancy, hence the "R".
What does management "NEED" according to their numbers? I'm sure they want the 5 nines of uptime, who doesn't... but what do the numbers say?
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@Tim_G said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
What does management "NEED" according to their numbers? I'm sure they want the 5 nines of uptime, who doesn't... but what do the numbers say?
I want six!
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Important to note as Tim points out, if all you want is five nines of uptime, you can achieve that pretty inexpensively with non-redundant servers. One really good, well treated server with good RAID, good environment, and good management can average five nines.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Important to note as Tim points out, if all you want is five nines of uptime, you can achieve that pretty inexpensively with non-redundant servers. One really good, well treated server with good RAID, good environment, and good management can average five nines.
Five nines is just over 5 minutes downtime over a year. You can't update a server in under 5 minutes. You would need a cluster to move it to, or another server to take over in some way so you can down the original. But yeah you are right... I've seen single servers that are well treated environmentally and everything stay running for years. As a consequence they we never updated, but that's besides the point. Stability-wise, definitely way over five nines is possible from a single server as you said.
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I have have effectively zero downtime in the past 10 years in my shop from server failures. I don't have any type of HA or fail over setup or vmotion type setup. We are not 24/7 shop, so taking the system down after hours to do maintenance doesn't count against our five 9's of uptime.
This is all in a onsite DC with UPS power backup and it's own AC unit. Definitely not as 'good' as a Level 3/4 DC, but not a hall closet either.
Modern servers, (starting at least 10, but probably more like 20 years ago) generally do pretty well stability wise as long as you aren't booting them all the time, and the temp/power remain mostly consistent.
