old MSP wants to know what they did wrong
-
Name any lie that can't be handled by claiming it is "just semantics". Clinton and what does "is" mean.
-
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
And just because Scott ran into some guys who used the term to lie about their experience, doesn't mean that other people using the term to describe something else is wrong or lying.
On this I agree, hence my previous comment.
-
@JaredBusch said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
You never answered my swastika question. Does it mean Nazi or some old religion?
What do you mean old religion? It is a symbol in a current religion in some parts of the world.
He means a religion that has been around a long time. Which it has. He didn't imply that it was no longer current or around or practiced, only that it wasn't something new.
-
@JaredBusch said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
And just because Scott ran into some guys who used the term to lie about their experience, doesn't mean that other people using the term to describe something else is wrong or lying.
On this I agree, hence my previous comment.
If you read what I wrote instead of jumping to calling me an ass, you'd notice that I've agreed with this since the beginning. I've made it incredibly clear that repeating a lie not knowing that it was a lie is not lying. I never claimed otherwise.
People twist my words and like to believe that I say all kinds of things that I do not then it becomes this constant "Scott always does this" even when I never do. I made it crazy clear that we were discussing the source of the misinformation, not the current use, and how that original misuse was not applicable to a valid reuse of the term because the source was not a redefinition but a lie meant to deceive. Nowhere did I suggest that those repeating it were lying. That was others making that assumption.
-
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
Name any lie that can't be handled by claiming it is "just semantics". Clinton and what does "is" mean.
Well, your entire argument is invalid. Pizza boxes have pizza in them. End of story. If you call a computer a pizza box then you are a liar. I don't care if you have ever eaten pizza or heard of pizza. If you refer to anything other than a box of pizza as a "pizza box" then you are doing it wrong and obviously lying. The person who propagated the use of the term "pizza box" for a computer form factor is the greatest deceiver of all, as I'm sure he had foreknowledge of a box that held pizza.
-
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
t they don't know what it is. Then claiming to own one, know how to use one, have worked on one or whatever is clearly lying. In
agreed, that is lying. but me calling it one is not lying, because I do know what it is as previously stated.
Agreed, it's not lying, but it is from a lie. It's a lie repeated when you didn't know it was a lie. So a lie remains the source of the nickname, which is what keeps it from being possible to consider it a valid new nickname for a 1U server. Your repeating it is not a lie because you had no intent, but now in the future if you said it, obviously it would then be lying.
Only if I accept your premise. If we had some IBM documentation where IBM themselves called the 1U server a pizzabox, would that change your option? Would it then in your eyes qualify as a new use of the term?
Not in the slightest. Why do you think that it would? We have documentation of people creating the pizza box lie already, that it is a documented lie doesn't reduce the lie.
Because it's the decided decision that they would MAKE the nickname pizzabox, changing the use from the supposed lie to a real thing.
Ah, that's not what I got (or get) from your description. I would only accept it as renaming if they acknowledged that it was not a pizza box as defined by the industry but that they were defining something new. The way that you have it worded, they are just getting the info wrong, never redefining or defining anything at all.
-
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
Name any lie that can't be handled by claiming it is "just semantics". Clinton and what does "is" mean.
Well, your entire argument is invalid. Pizza boxes have pizza in them. End of story. If you call a computer a pizza box then you are a liar. I don't care if you have ever eaten pizza or heard of pizza. If you refer to anything other than a box of pizza as a "pizza box" then you are doing it wrong and obviously lying. The person who propagated the use of the term "pizza box" for a computer form factor is the greatest deceiver of all, as I'm sure he had foreknowledge of a box that held pizza.
It was clearly defined by the industry with no intent to mislead. So you've missed the point.
-
@scottalanmiller I did read this entire disaster of a thread. Maybe clear in your world, but I have no idea wtf could even make anyone think you were clear on anything. You are irrationally attached to this elitist viewpoint that everyone else who uses it is wrong.
-
Swastica: It was clearly not an attempt to mislead and they gave a new definition. While they might not have been insanely explicit in the re-use of it, there was no need to do so as there was no possibility of confusion as the two uses were so ridiculously different. It's safe to assume that no one ever thought that people would see the political symbol and think that it was the religious use of it. It was clear from the use that they were making a new use, no attempt to deceive (in that one particular case.)
-
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
Name any lie that can't be handled by claiming it is "just semantics". Clinton and what does "is" mean.
Well, your entire argument is invalid. Pizza boxes have pizza in them. End of story. If you call a computer a pizza box then you are a liar. I don't care if you have ever eaten pizza or heard of pizza. If you refer to anything other than a box of pizza as a "pizza box" then you are doing it wrong and obviously lying. The person who propagated the use of the term "pizza box" for a computer form factor is the greatest deceiver of all, as I'm sure he had foreknowledge of a box that held pizza.
It was clearly defined by the industry with no intent to mislead. So you've missed the point.
Then who is defined as "the industry"? There was an ad that metaphorically referred to the case as a pizza box. So a single ad set the industry standard, but thousands of people using a word doesn't mean anything because, whether or not they ever saw the ad, it existed and they are all liars.
-
@JaredBusch said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller I did read this entire disaster of a thread. Maybe clear in your world, but I have no idea wtf could even make anyone think you were clear on anything. You are irrationally attached to this elitist viewpoint that everyone else who uses it is wrong.
That's how I feel about your side, though. What makes my argument for accuracy elitist and the argument for "do anything you want and just make things up" not elitist? Both are equally elitist or not elitist. But using the term, is elitist. I didn't use it.
-
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
Swastica: It was clearly not an attempt to mislead and they gave a new definition. While they might not have been insanely explicit in the re-use of it, there was no need to do so as there was no possibility of confusion as the two uses were so ridiculously different. It's safe to assume that no one ever thought that people would see the political symbol and think that it was the religious use of it. It was clear from the use that they were making a new use, no attempt to deceive (in that one particular case.)
Says who? What authority do you have other than your own personal opinion? Unless you have the minutes from the meeting in which it was adopted, you have conjecture and nothing more.
-
What this comes down to appears to be this: We know now what the term means in the industry and has always meant and now it comes down to some people care about honesty and some think that the truth is flexible. If siding with honesty is elitist, its the greatest compliment.
-
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
What this comes down to appears to be this: We know now what the term means in the industry and has always meant and now it comes down to some people care about honesty and some think that the truth is flexible. If siding with honesty is elitist, its the greatest compliment.
Realistically, it means "a computer case shaped like a pizza box", which can apply to a number of products. It happened to first be used to describe the Sparcstation and a few others, but I see no reference that explicitly claims anything other than shaped like a pizza box and generally accepted to be anything resembling that, such as a 1 or 2U server of varying configurations and depths. It's when you throw in that it can ONLY mean the first thing it referred to (a specific product, which it doesn't) that you become elitist and irrelevant.
-
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
What this comes down to appears to be this: We know now what the term means in the industry and has always meant and now it comes down to some people care about honesty and some think that the truth is flexible. If siding with honesty is elitist, its the greatest compliment.
Realistically, it means "a computer case shaped like a pizza box", which can apply to a number of products. It happened to first be used to describe the Sparcstation and a few others, but I see no reference that explicitly claims anything other than shaped like a pizza box and generally accepted to be anything resembling that, such as a 1 or 2U server of varying configurations and depths. It's when you throw in that it can ONLY mean the first thing it referred to (a specific product, which it doesn't) that you become elitist and irrelevant.
That's why modern rackmounts don't qualify, but some old ones did. No one is making square ones any longer, but Sun used to (the V100 for example.) That was a rare rackmount pizza box.
-
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
What this comes down to appears to be this: We know now what the term means in the industry and has always meant and now it comes down to some people care about honesty and some think that the truth is flexible. If siding with honesty is elitist, its the greatest compliment.
Realistically, it means "a computer case shaped like a pizza box", which can apply to a number of products. It happened to first be used to describe the Sparcstation and a few others, but I see no reference that explicitly claims anything other than shaped like a pizza box and generally accepted to be anything resembling that, such as a 1 or 2U server of varying configurations and depths. It's when you throw in that it can ONLY mean the first thing it referred to (a specific product, which it doesn't) that you become elitist and irrelevant.
That's why modern rackmounts don't qualify, but some old ones did. No one is making square ones any longer, but Sun used to (the V100 for example.) That was a rare rackmount pizza box.
The Wikipedia definition of sorts says varying depths in conjunction with rackmount. That means not explicitly square.
-
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
It's when you throw in that it can ONLY mean the first thing it referred to (a specific product, which it doesn't) that you become elitist and irrelevant.
Or it is when you say it can apply to anything you want that it becomes elitist and irrelevant. There is nothing "elite" in accuracy, we hope. If there is, than elite is the only acceptable thing. IF we are really saying that it is elitist to care about accuracy and honesty, then it is a horrible statement to state that someone is not.
-
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
What this comes down to appears to be this: We know now what the term means in the industry and has always meant and now it comes down to some people care about honesty and some think that the truth is flexible. If siding with honesty is elitist, its the greatest compliment.
Realistically, it means "a computer case shaped like a pizza box", which can apply to a number of products. It happened to first be used to describe the Sparcstation and a few others, but I see no reference that explicitly claims anything other than shaped like a pizza box and generally accepted to be anything resembling that, such as a 1 or 2U server of varying configurations and depths. It's when you throw in that it can ONLY mean the first thing it referred to (a specific product, which it doesn't) that you become elitist and irrelevant.
That's why modern rackmounts don't qualify, but some old ones did. No one is making square ones any longer, but Sun used to (the V100 for example.) That was a rare rackmount pizza box.
The Wikipedia definition of sorts says varying depths in conjunction with rackmount. That means not explicitly square.
No, it says that about 1U servers, not pizza boxes. It is talking about what followed the pizza box.
-
The Wikipedia article talks about the historic context of how the square pizza box form factor become the influence for the common 1U and 2U servers of today, but was not necessarily that form factor itself. It then mentions how modern rackmounts vary from the pizza box model by having varying depths. That information was showing how they differ from the pizza box, not describing the pizza box.
-
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
It's when you throw in that it can ONLY mean the first thing it referred to (a specific product, which it doesn't) that you become elitist and irrelevant.
Or it is when you say it can apply to anything you want that it becomes elitist and irrelevant. There is nothing "elite" in accuracy, we hope. If there is, than elite is the only acceptable thing. IF we are really saying that it is elitist to care about accuracy and honesty, then it is a horrible statement to state that someone is not.
Your view is too narrow and you cling to it as "higher" than other views. That's elitism in a nutshell. Those saying "pull the stick out of your a$$ and get off your high horse" are specifically not elitist and just want you to get over it. There is no specific definition in the source that you personally cited that says you are explicitly correct. It does say that was the first usage, but also accommodates other factors which you are unwilling to yield to, in order to maintain the elite view that first is best and only; all others are wrong.
