If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?
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@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@Dashrender said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
This is the double edged sword of employment.
We see Scott running around here claiming that the places you want to work don't require a degree - but then we have posts like this that say that the jobs they are seeing do.
I haven't been job hunting in a while - but the last time I was, I do recall seeing a lot that wanted it (and sometimes or equivalent experience).
This is just a hard place to be in. I think if you can find a good placement agency, that might give you leg up, but some many of those places just seem shady.
Here's actually my fear- https://www.fastcompany.com/3057941/the-future-of-work/how-the-masters-degree-became-the-new-bachelors-in-the-hiring-world
. Mind you, I haven't personally seen the changes that are noted in that article, but it does get me wondering. At the very least, it gets me thinking I should get a bachelor's degree.Legitimately every single job posting I have ran across requires a Bachelor's. Often they'll say or equivalent experience, but it seems to be obvious that they're looking for one.
ALSO not to mention that is one of the easiest filtering methods of applicants. I see it looked at this way- A degree isn't necessarily bad, so if we filter out who doesn't have a degree, we're still picking the top of the candidates.
If I'm not mistaken, there are some places that do automatic filtering for Resume's, and they may use this as one of the criteria. In other words, they may not even acknowledge that you exist or ever see your resume if you don't have a degree.
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@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
If I'm not mistaken, there are some places that do automatic filtering for Resume's, and they may use this as one of the criteria. In other words, they may not even acknowledge that you exist or ever see your resume if you don't have a degree.
We talked about this very thing a year or so ago. My dad always asked/told me - if you are looking to hire two people, and they are same in every way except one has a degree and one doesn't who would you hire? Of course my dad said the guy with the degree, But other chimed in and said the opposite. To those others, the degree showed that the person probably just wasted time spending money that probably didn't do them much good, etc, etc.
We definitely have a situation where we've been told that if you don't have a college degree (and likely thousands in debt) that you aren't as good as someone without - it's no different than the societal norms for beauty - if you don't look like X, well you aren't good enough.
I'm not sure we'll ever get away from these types of problems, so I don't know the answer.
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This is just me generally speaking, but you don't need it to be successful. I can think of 1 example right off the top of my head. My best friend doesn't have a degree, yet works for ADP at home and he's in the 6 figures.
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A degree should only be relevant when you are in your early or mid 20s looking for your first real job. Im 37 next month and if someone wont hire me because I dont have a BS from 15 years ago, well they can do without my superior(most of the time)skills. Ill go work for myself or find someone that will hire me.
Will it even matter in 20 years when worldwide employment rate is 5-10% due to automation in all fields?
A bit off topic, but i much prefer the term Curriculum Vitae (life's work) to resume.
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@Son-of-Jor-El said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
This is just me generally speaking, but you don't need it to be successful. I can think of 1 example right off the top of my head. My best friend doesn't have a degree, yet works for ADP at home and he's in the 6 figures.
I fully agree. It is plenty possible. It's not easy, but it's possible.
@momurda said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
A degree should only be relevant when you are in your early or mid 20s looking for your first real job. Im 37 next month and if someone wont hire me because I dont have a BS from 15 years ago, well they can do without my superior(most of the time)skills. Ill go work for myself or find someone that will hire me.
Will it even matter in 20 years when worldwide employment rate is 5-10% due to automation in all fields?
A bit off topic, but i much prefer the term Curriculum Vitae (life's work) to resume.
A problem I run into is even with 6 years experience in IT, I don't even get contacted back for anything higher than entry-level. I'm in my early-mid 20's, but I'm far from my first job. Jobs in my area are tight, period. and this is where my family is, so I intend to stick around, at least for a while longer. I wish I could give the entire concept the finger and walk away from anywhere like that, but the truth is when you have no jobs that'll consider you because you have no degree, and you're in a position of needing a job... Your mindset changes.
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Even if it were free, it's not likely worth it. The time alone normally hurts you too much. And the further you are from 17, the less good it does.
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@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
However, I have been doing some reading on getting a bachelor's degree because it seems to be getting harder and harder to get a job without a degree. I stumbled across this little nugget of information:
This is a total lie. It's a fabrication from people with degrees trying to justify the decisions that they made.
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@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Even if it were free, it's not likely worth it. The time alone normally hurts you too much. And the further you are from 17, the less good it does.
Let me ask you a base question- Do you agree with the concept of certs?
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
However, I have been doing some reading on getting a bachelor's degree because it seems to be getting harder and harder to get a job without a degree. I stumbled across this little nugget of information:
This is a total lie. It's a fabrication from people with degrees trying to justify the decisions that they made.
That was a because. Personal experience. I'd love to say it's bull. Truly, I would. But, in my experience in my area, it really isn't.
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@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
From what I read, the colleges are regionally accredited- "...two of them are state schools, and the third was formerly a state college of New York." which would mean they are verified as legitimate.
Tell me- is this something you would do?
I did it, and I did it from the school in NY that you are looking into. If you were to do any degree, that's where I would do it. But even there, it doesn't help as much as you think AND if you do it from certs your degree won't really be valid. You get credit for demonstrable experience, NOT from certs. A few creds from certs, maybe, but nothing like WGU's double dipping.
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@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Even if it were free, it's not likely worth it. The time alone normally hurts you too much. And the further you are from 17, the less good it does.
Let me ask you a base question- Do you agree with the concept of certs?
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
However, I have been doing some reading on getting a bachelor's degree because it seems to be getting harder and harder to get a job without a degree. I stumbled across this little nugget of information:
This is a total lie. It's a fabrication from people with degrees trying to justify the decisions that they made.
That was a because. Personal experience. I'd love to say it's bull. Truly, I would. But, in my experience in my area, it really isn't.
It is, you can't have personal experience that really says otherwise. Every business TELLS you that they aren't hiring you because you don't have a degree. But in reality, almost no one does not and if you think about how embarrassing it would be for a company to really mean that... very few do. Don't read into the excuses, it's simply not true.
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By putting limits on yourself (not wanting to move, etc) you are really hurting your job finding, and in the long run hurting your family. If there are no jobs in Shithole, Kentucky that pay well, move somewhere else that has high paying jobs.
Its like the people who live in flood deltas and have had their house destroyed multiple times, refuse to move because of sentimental reasons. -
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Even if it were free, it's not likely worth it. The time alone normally hurts you too much. And the further you are from 17, the less good it does.
Let me ask you a base question- Do you agree with the concept of certs?
Certs as certs, yes. Certs as a double dip to buy a fake degree, no.
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@momurda said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
By putting limits on yourself (not wanting to move, etc) you are really hurting your job finding, and in the long run hurting your family. If there are no jobs in Shithole, Kentucky that pay well, move somewhere else that has high paying jobs.
Its like the people who live in flood deltas and have had their house destroyed multiple times, refuse to move because of sentimental reasons.But, the question is which is the bigger limit, college or not college. Statistics say that college is the limiter that you put on yourself by limiting your time to learn and build your career.
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College has to be looked at as a cost of lost opportunity. You trade your best career options for safer ones.
http://www.smbitjournal.com/2016/07/finding-a-job-or-finding-the-job/
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Define your goals first... do you want to be a professor? Do you want a hedge against unemployment? Do you want to get the best career possible?
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Something huge to consider... everyone without a degree tells the story that without a degree you can't get a job. But the people will degrees all talk about how there are no jobs at all. The difference is, one has a longer time to find work, more time to learn skills, less debt. In a market where college is now widely known to not get you a job, the risks of going the "safe" college route are higher than ever. It's an emotional panic response to not finding instant work to feel like lacking a degree is holding you back. But did those positions get filled by people with the same level of experience or less, but with a degree? Not likely.
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I had actually planned to have an article out about why everyone feels that lacking degrees are holding them back and why you can't determine that from that evidence. But then we had the funeral to get to. I'll have this out soon, though. It's really important to understand why lacking a degree will almost certainly make it feel that way when it is not true.
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@Breffni-Potter said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
The need for a degree is due to the HR machine, would that HR machine look at the school in question and filter you out automatically?
This is something that people mention a lot and it definitely happens in the absolute lowest end jobs. But how often does it actually happen? I've never seen it in real life.
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@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Even if it were free, it's not likely worth it. The time alone normally hurts you too much. And the further you are from 17, the less good it does.
Let me ask you a base question- Do you agree with the concept of certs?
Certs as certs, yes. Certs as a double dip to buy a fake degree, no.
The entire concept is using tests and prior knowledge and experience to essentially get a degree that you already knew the material about. Not really time invested. "Fake Degree" will require a bit more explanation. Fake to you, or the employer? Fake to you, hell yeah. To me college itself is an ignorant endeavor that I don't even want to consider. My degree would be fake to me even if I went through traditional college, because the process is fundamentally flawed. Fake to the employer? A degree from a regionally accredited college? Seems to me, maybe not.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@momurda said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
By putting limits on yourself (not wanting to move, etc) you are really hurting your job finding, and in the long run hurting your family. If there are no jobs in Shithole, Kentucky that pay well, move somewhere else that has high paying jobs.
Its like the people who live in flood deltas and have had their house destroyed multiple times, refuse to move because of sentimental reasons.But, the question is which is the bigger limit, college or not college. Statistics say that college is the limiter that you put on yourself by limiting your time to learn and build your career.
First- to @momurda . I agree. It's something I'm contending with, and honestly should be able to pull away from at the end of the year.
@scottalanmiller , to me this implies that you limit yourself because you feel like "Well, I've already learned everything I need to to get my dream job. I don't need to learn anything else." Currently, even with this thread, I see a degree as a very expensive piece of paper that does me nothing (This is the way I see anything considered public education overall.) It's not that I intend to learn with a degree. More of ensure that it is not hindering me from progressing.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Something huge to consider... everyone without a degree tells the story that without a degree you can't get a job. But the people will degrees all talk about how there are no jobs at all. The difference is, one has a longer time to find work, more time to learn skills, less debt. In a market where college is now widely known to not get you a job, the risks of going the "safe" college route are higher than ever. It's an emotional panic response to not finding instant work to feel like lacking a degree is holding you back. But did those positions get filled by people with the same level of experience or less, but with a degree? Not likely.
The point on this is actually obtaining a degree with very little time and money invested due to, hell, already knowing enough about the majority of what they have to teach to be able to pass a test on it.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
I had actually planned to have an article out about why everyone feels that lacking degrees are holding them back and why you can't determine that from that evidence. But then we had the funeral to get to. I'll have this out soon, though. It's really important to understand why lacking a degree will almost certainly make it feel that way when it is not true.
I'll see what I can find tonight.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@Breffni-Potter said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
The need for a degree is due to the HR machine, would that HR machine look at the school in question and filter you out automatically?
This is something that people mention a lot and it definitely happens in the absolute lowest end jobs. But how often does it actually happen? I've never seen it in real life.
Yes. I've been told 'No' to jobs I qualified for based on their requirements posted to a "T", and have actually gotten automatic replies from some of them. Either that, or their HR was working late and looked at my resume and scoffed anyway.
