This Is Who Is Teaching College
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@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
I'm just wondering how bad most universities are if you are right.
REally, really bad.
I've been told (by teachers) that the only purpose of university is to cover the material from HS again because so many kids are busy doing other things during HA that they aren't there to learn.
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@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
My university (UD as well)had an excellent engineering program.
I got into the top ranked engineering program in the world. I'm not saying that it was bad. I'm saying that it wasn't capable of delivering math or science that I could not (or did not) have access to learn other ways. It DID get me access to foundries, manufacturing gear (I was MSE, not ME) and heavy gear that were really hard to get access to back then.
However, for the amount that college cost for that engineering degree I could have bought all of that gear and started a manufacturing firm and gotten more knowledge and experience and owned a company for it.
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@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
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@pchiodo said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
Except that the real number is 16% seven years ago and was climbing fast. In reality, I'd say that the problem is the opposite - more kids are taking advanced math than can use it.
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@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@pchiodo said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
Except that the real number is 16% seven years ago and was climbing fast. In reality, I'd say that the problem is the opposite - more kids are taking advanced math than can use it.
Which I personally believe would lead to more people taking college classes and then getting into the debt:entitlement cycle discussed earlier.
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@DustinB3403 said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@pchiodo said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
Except that the real number is 16% seven years ago and was climbing fast. In reality, I'd say that the problem is the opposite - more kids are taking advanced math than can use it.
Which I personally believe would lead to more people taking college classes and then getting into the debt:entitlement cycle discussed earlier.
In theory, high school math is routinely far past the point where it teaches kids how to look at the college stats and know that it will not help them in careers. It's not hard math and it really is being taught. While the debt cycle is a "problem", it's only a problem for those that are caught in it, not for everyone else. And frankly, I see very little opportunity for it to be anyone's fault except for the students' themselves as they've been given the tools to evaluate the decision and they don't bother to do so.
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@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@pchiodo said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
Except that the real number is 16% seven years ago and was climbing fast. In reality, I'd say that the problem is the opposite - more kids are taking advanced math than can use it.
I did and I certainly don't use it..
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@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@DustinB3403 said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@pchiodo said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
Except that the real number is 16% seven years ago and was climbing fast. In reality, I'd say that the problem is the opposite - more kids are taking advanced math than can use it.
Which I personally believe would lead to more people taking college classes and then getting into the debt:entitlement cycle discussed earlier.
In theory, high school math is routinely far past the point where it teaches kids how to look at the college stats and know that it will not help them in careers. It's not hard math and it really is being taught. While the debt cycle is a "problem", it's only a problem for those that are caught in it, not for everyone else. And frankly, I see very little opportunity for it to be anyone's fault except for the students' themselves as they've been given the tools to evaluate the decision and they don't bother to do so.
I think this comes down to the normals situation again - most people just follow the herd, don't think for themselves. I really didn't know what I wanted to do when I got out of High School. I liked computers well enough, but I wasn't like Scott or some of the others here, coding into the wee hours, etc, etc.
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@Dashrender said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@pchiodo said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
Except that the real number is 16% seven years ago and was climbing fast. In reality, I'd say that the problem is the opposite - more kids are taking advanced math than can use it.
I did and I certainly don't use it..
Really? I use it pretty regularly.
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@Dashrender said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
I think this comes down to the normals situation again - most people just follow the herd, don't think for themselves.
Of course, and the blame rests squarely on their shoulders for the decision to follow the herd off the cliff. No one makes them do it.
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@Dashrender said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
I really didn't know what I wanted to do when I got out of High School. I liked computers well enough, but I wasn't like Scott or some of the others here, coding into the wee hours, etc, etc.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with deciding to go to college rather than doing just whatever else someone might do. The things that are wrong are:
- Complaining about the debt
- Feeling entitled
- Acting like college was going to provide a career opportunity
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@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@Dashrender said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@pchiodo said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
Except that the real number is 16% seven years ago and was climbing fast. In reality, I'd say that the problem is the opposite - more kids are taking advanced math than can use it.
I did and I certainly don't use it..
Really? I use it pretty regularly.
You do? doing what? I haven't written a Calculus expression in nearly 2 decades.
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@Dashrender said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@Dashrender said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@pchiodo said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@momurda said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
Scott what reality are you in? Most people graduate high school cant even do addition and subtraction without a calculator. Learning engineering physics and calc in high school is not happening anywhere in this country.
And you think that THOSE kids are going on to engineering schools and graduating?
Physics and calc is normal in high school. Every high school kid I know is getting that stuff. Or at least have access to it and only don't get it if they opt out of it.
@art_of_shred and I took the first two years of engineering university calculus together in high school, in fact, as did something like 30% of our class.
My nieces definitely get this stuff in high school, even in Texas.
Find my any high school in the US that doesn't offer physics and calc.
They offer it, but nobody is taking it except 1 or 2% of the kids who want to do more than work as a wageslave in a warehouse or work as minimum wage government employees. It isn't happening like you say. FFS the high school drop out rate in this country is approaching 20% for all students and youre saying everybody cant get engineering classes in high school.
This is a social failure and it's symptoms being cast on the educational system. Just because most of these kids don't want to learn, doesn't mean they can't, and it certainly doesn't mean it's not available. It is an injustice to brainwash these kids into thinking that the only way to a good job with good pay is through a college education and mountains of debt.
Except that the real number is 16% seven years ago and was climbing fast. In reality, I'd say that the problem is the opposite - more kids are taking advanced math than can use it.
I did and I certainly don't use it..
Really? I use it pretty regularly.
You do? doing what? I haven't written a Calculus expression in nearly 2 decades.
Written, no, not too often. But I use things that I learned in calc constantly. At least once today while contemplating an "approaching zero" scenario for something.
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@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
approaching zero
Holy crap... Asymptote is that the word? I haven't heard or used that since high school.
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@coliver said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
approaching zero
Holy crap... Asymptote is that the word? I haven't heard or used that since high school.
I use that all the time, at least conceptually. When thinking about costs, risks and things like that you use calc quite often.
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@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@coliver said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
approaching zero
Holy crap... Asymptote is that the word? I haven't heard or used that since high school.
I use that all the time, at least conceptually. When thinking about costs, risks and things like that you use calc quite often.
You considering that using calculus? I don't - unless you're actually doing the math, you're just using a concept that anyone who's never taken calculus can be taught and understand.
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@Dashrender said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
You considering that using calculus? I don't - unless you're actually doing the math, you're just using a concept that anyone who's never taken calculus can be taught and understand.
You call using calc concepts and understanding "not using calculus?" I'm confused. If you don't know calc, who do you know or use those concepts? If you teach someone that concept and they understand it, they've been forced to learn some parts of calculus to do so.
No matter how you slice it... teaching someone calculus and then them using that... is using calculus
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I did my senior thesis on this topic. Only perfect score in my school's history. My thesis became a mandatory part of the curriculum. The State University of NY got involved and put my thesis on file.
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@scottalanmiller said in This Is Who Is Teaching College:
I did my senior thesis on this topic. Only perfect score in my school's history. My thesis became a mandatory part of the curriculum. The State University of NY got involved and put my thesis on file.
LOL I still had to ask when I was 18. I was 18.5 when I graduated.. and no, before a funny man asks, I wasn't held back a year
Dec birthday just makes me older than most.
