Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
You are unwilling to allow for someone to continue giving solid advice and solutions irregardless of affiliations.
Pretty much, that's correct. Someone choosing to have money drive their actions, who then accepts money given for the express purpose of driving their actions in another way, will be influenced by that money. And doing sales under the guise of consulting is unethical.
That is correct, I feel that that is essentially black and white. If you consult for the purpose of making money, you can't not be swayed by someone giving you money for another purpose. The fact that this is your job makes you influenced by money.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I'm suggesting there is a lot of reasons why a consultant might be biased, money is only one angle.
DId you read my article on understanding bias? There are bias that are good, bias that are bad, bias that you can avoid, bias that you cannot. Consulting is about paying for good bias. Selling is about bad bias. If you intentionally introduce an unethical bias against the interest of the people who are paying you, that's a bad bias that could have been avoided.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Bias is everywhere, but you are suggesting monetary bias is especially damning. But any of the above can lead to bad solutions too.
Correct. Because in this situation....
- People are heavily influenced by money in general.
- The fact that you are paid to consult means you are affected by money specifically.
- The fact that you are willing to be paid to sell means you are affected by money more than if you were just a consultant. This only comes up as a concern at all because you are strongly influenced by the effect.
- It's an avoidable bias that doesn't need to exist. Some bias are unavoidable, this one is not. It's not unethical to like a product, but it is to take money from another party to mislead the first (even if you don't intend to.)
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Let me try a completely different tact. In talking to us about this, you feel one way because we are consultants. So we trigger one mental or emotional response.
Think of it this way, if you had a customer reading your logic on this thread, would you feel comfortable with that? Would you feel confident that they would agree with your logic and reasoning? Would you feel squirmish? Would you feel that you needed to amend what you had said?
It's totally up to you, of course. But imagine going into a client after making recommendation and finding out that they had read about your approach and that you were getting paid, even just a little, to sell whatever you had ended up recommending to them. Would you be happy that they read how much thought you put into it? Would you be upset and feel that you needed to explain?
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
You are unwilling to allow for someone to continue giving solid advice and solutions irregardless of affiliations.
Pretty much, that's correct. Someone choosing to have money drive their actions, who then accepts money given for the express purpose of driving their actions in another way, will be influenced by that money. And doing sales under the guise of consulting is unethical.
That is correct, I feel that that is essentially black and white. If you consult for the purpose of making money, you can't not be swayed by someone giving you money for another purpose. The fact that this is your job makes you influenced by money.
This is just a play on words, and why we're going around and around.
I don't sign up for an affiliation because I somehow WANT and CHOOSE to have "money drive their actions". I don't want money to drive my actions at all! I signed up because it's just available to do.
I sign up because it's just THERE, easy, free, simple. I think of it as nothing more than walking down the sidewalk and seeing a $50 bill. I bend over and pick it up because it's there. Something I wasn't expecting, but hey it's there.
Similarly, I often recommend product X, then I get an email "hey we do affiliate! Click this link" so I click the link, click OK, and done. So easy. A bonus if it ever actually comes through.
I wake up the next morning feeling no different than I did before. Corruption hasn't overtaken my veins magically. I don't feel particular shifty or conniving! -
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I don't sign up for an affiliation because I somehow WANT and CHOOSE to have "money drive their actions". I don't want money to drive my actions at all! I signed up because it's just available to do.
Is that also why you want to consult? If not, why does one set of money influence you and why does one not?
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I sign up because it's just THERE, easy, free, simple. I think of it as nothing more than walking down the sidewalk and seeing a $50 bill. I bend over and pick it up because it's there. Something I wasn't expecting, but hey it's there.
But you only get to pick it up if you tell someone to spend money in a specific way. It's not at all like just picking up free money.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Sure the negative aspects of human nature may take over in many or even most all cases, but you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.
Only if the baby is the commission. If the commission comes across as the baby, doesn't that show why we feel concern? If the commission is tiny, is it worth the conflict? If the money is big, then there is big conflict.
The baby is the consultant themselves. They can ONLY be a good consultant when there is zero monetary gain from recommending any particular solution. But if there IS gain from any particular solution, they become a CORRUPT consultant immediately.
You are unwilling to allow for someone to continue giving solid advice and solutions irregardless of affiliations.Why don't you agree with this?
I'm suggesting there is a lot of reasons why a consultant might be biased, money is only one angle. Maybe they are just used to it. They work faster with it. The setup process is smoother. They have some kind of remote abilities. They find tech support easier to use.
Actually, they shouldn't create bias, they should be line items in the decision making process. But money you earn because someone buys something you recommend should not be a line item, if it is, then the customer is getting screwed by that line item.
This again comes to the consulting aspect. I'm guessing that you've never been paid to give an opinion - that is what Scott is talking about here. Consulting in this regard is simply being paid, by the customer, to do the research to present the best option for the customer. If the customer isn't paying for this research, who is?
All these create "bias" too. The best solution might actually be a product the consultant has never heard of yet. The best solution might be the one they avoid because it's too complex or requires too much of his time to train the client.
Yep, that is why they need to pay you to spend the time to do the research.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I don't sign up for an affiliation because I somehow WANT and CHOOSE to have "money drive their actions". I don't want money to drive my actions at all! I signed up because it's just available to do.
Is that also why you want to consult? If not, why does one set of money influence you and why does one not?
Because my MAIN job, is much more. You really think if I'm doing a $1000 or $3000 job that the addition or lack of a $20 affiliate link is going to swing things on way or the other?
On the other hand, I agree that if I'm doing a job for $100 but the affiliation is $150, that can feel very influential.
Or even worse, lets say I simply get an email from somebody asking a question. I can easily email them my links back. This is job that pays nothing, yet I could end up with some money just the same.The amount of bias, then, seems quite relative.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
That is correct, I feel that that is essentially black and white. If you consult for the purpose of making money, you can't not be swayed by someone giving you money for another purpose. The fact that this is your job makes you influenced by money.
and here's the rub - I'm guessing you're not being paid to recommend that equipment - which makes you a VAR, not a consultant.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I wake up the next morning feeling no different than I did before. Corruption hasn't overtaken my veins magically. I don't feel particular shifty or conniving!
It doesn't normally. But I know that if I'm paid to sell one thing and not paid to sell another, I'm not as neutral as I would like to be. I'm not horribly biased, but it's not zero. The problem is, the more the money is valuable, the more it influences me (or anyone.)
So if I'm getting $1... I'm not influenced much. But it begs the question, why did I bother?
If I'm getting $50K, I'm influenced a lot, in which case, I'm really unethical. The ratio is direct; so to me it is always bad. If you make almost nothing, why do it. If you make a lot, you are heavily biased.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I sign up because it's just THERE, easy, free, simple. I think of it as nothing more than walking down the sidewalk and seeing a $50 bill. I bend over and pick it up because it's there. Something I wasn't expecting, but hey it's there.
But you only get to pick it up if you tell someone to spend money in a specific way. It's not at all like just picking up free money.
But that's how I think of it as.
You mentioned Ubiquity's program. If the program requires contracts and quotas and all this garbage, no thanks, I'll pass. But if it's just pressing the OK button, it's free money. Just a bonus. Just bending over and picking it up simply because it's there.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
All these create "bias" too. The best solution might actually be a product the consultant has never heard of yet. The best solution might be the one they avoid because it's too complex or requires too much of his time to train the client.
Yep, that is why they need to pay you to spend the time to do the research.
But that's separate. If you do research, you get paid. If you train, you get paid. If something is complex, what does that do? As a consultant, I'm not biased by that.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
You are unwilling to allow for someone to continue giving solid advice and solutions irregardless of affiliations.
Pretty much, that's correct. Someone choosing to have money drive their actions, who then accepts money given for the express purpose of driving their actions in another way, will be influenced by that money. And doing sales under the guise of consulting is unethical.
That is correct, I feel that that is essentially black and white. If you consult for the purpose of making money, you can't not be swayed by someone giving you money for another purpose. The fact that this is your job makes you influenced by money.
This is just a play on words, and why we're going around and around.
I don't sign up for an affiliation because I somehow WANT and CHOOSE to have "money drive their actions". I don't want money to drive my actions at all! I signed up because it's just available to do.
If there was no money - would you still sign up? if not, why not?
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I sign up because it's just THERE, easy, free, simple. I think of it as nothing more than walking down the sidewalk and seeing a $50 bill. I bend over and pick it up because it's there. Something I wasn't expecting, but hey it's there.
But you only get to pick it up if you tell someone to spend money in a specific way. It's not at all like just picking up free money.
But that's how I think of it as.
You mentioned Ubiquity's program. If the program requires contracts and quotas and all this garbage, no thanks, I'll pass. But if it's just pressing the OK button, it's free money. Just a bonus. Just bending over and picking it up simply because it's there.
But it's NOT just there. You only get that money AFTER you've gotten someone to buy it through you. It's NOT free money under any condition.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
You are unwilling to allow for someone to continue giving solid advice and solutions irregardless of affiliations.
Pretty much, that's correct. Someone choosing to have money drive their actions, who then accepts money given for the express purpose of driving their actions in another way, will be influenced by that money. And doing sales under the guise of consulting is unethical.
That is correct, I feel that that is essentially black and white. If you consult for the purpose of making money, you can't not be swayed by someone giving you money for another purpose. The fact that this is your job makes you influenced by money.
This is just a play on words, and why we're going around and around.
I don't sign up for an affiliation because I somehow WANT and CHOOSE to have "money drive their actions". I don't want money to drive my actions at all! I signed up because it's just available to do.
If there was no money - would you still sign up? if not, why not?
Right, and why do you think that they are paying you? Because they are confident that you will be biased by the money. Otherwise they would never pay you.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I sign up because it's just THERE, easy, free, simple. I think of it as nothing more than walking down the sidewalk and seeing a $50 bill. I bend over and pick it up because it's there. Something I wasn't expecting, but hey it's there.
it's not like that at all - because you KNOW the $50 will be there after you 'recommend' a product.
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@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Because my MAIN job, is much more. You really think if I'm doing a $1000 or $3000 job that the addition or lack of a $20 affiliate link is going to swing things on way or the other?
How do you define MAIN and what makes one special and one not? That seems like a bizarre, illogical differentiation. One $20 bill is your main job, another $20 is not. One dollar influences you, one does not. That seems... odd.
And why is a job $3000 and the affiliate $20? Typically this is the opposite. Not always, but often. And how do you ensure that one is always big and the other is always small?
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
It's true, even when discussing the consulting side he's using the term sells. Like "been selling Synology in the past."
We have to be clear, we aren't saying that selling is bad. We are pointing out that you are thinking of yourself as a VAR, not as a consultant, even when you aren't being paid to sell. I think that's what is making this seem like there is wiggle room on the ethics... because you are thinking of consulting as "selling solutions", which is not how we see it.
