Simplivity - anyone use them?
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
It is unfortunate that because of many sales reps shady practices we have to be so guarded, but I get it.
While that's a factor, I don't think that it's the big one. At least not from my perspective. It's that I need lots of info, all the time, when making decisions and knowing prices and knowing them more or less reliably is critical in being able to compare options. I do option compares all day, every day. Knowing how close different solutions are to one another has to be a ten second thing, it has to be in my head, if I have to ask someone for that info, it's too "costly" in time and effort to make it into a matrix. Most SMB systems design is done "live" without time to request pricing. No matter how great the pricing is or how awesome the sales guy is, it's a workflow concern.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@scottalanmiller I cannot help but feel a bit like I'm being attacked. {salesdick?}
That particular line was from @RojoLoco who is not known for mincing words in general. @scottalanmiller also has a tendency to break up his responses into multiple posts. It adds some clarity, but can be overwhelming, and he is also very blunt (although his language is less...colorful in online postings compared to Rojo). It can be a hard pill to swallow, but if you sift the wheat from the chaff you will find some very significant competitive advantages for the SMB market. I fall into the same category as most here. If a vendor doesn't post basic pricing information I will typically walk away unless there is a significant motivator aside from the product itself (peer recommendation being the largest).
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@scottalanmiller This is great feedback. you are right I cant fix it, but again I feel personally responsible.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@scottalanmiller This is great feedback. you are right I cant fix it, but again I feel personally responsible.
That's what I'm hoping for. It's not hounding or attacking, it's clarifying. It's not a simple "hey we want prices, give them to us" issue. It's that SMBs often have complicated differences that if you don't work with hundreds of SMBs personally from the inside you might have no idea are common. So we are trying to get that stuff exposed for you. The feedback to management at Simplivity shouldn't be "people get pissy without pricing", although that's a good elevator pitch for the meeting, but should end in a presentation of "did you guys know that SMB workflows often don't allow for price negotiation or discovery... and here is why!"
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@Kelly Thanks Kelly, great insight, and for the record, when I'm asked for numbers I do give them, and will try to influence my peers to do the same.
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@scottalanmiller Thanks for that Scott, will do.
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As someone who works with Vendors and teaches them how to communicate with IT Pro's... IT Pro's may all be very blunt (ok darn right harsh) they are right.
We IT Pro's (yes I am an IT Pro just have a different job title these days), will not take a second look at a vendor that hides their pricing.
We also don't like to work with Sales people we don't know. So get to know us socially not just talking about your product on a forum.
We want honesty (ok not just us), we want transparency and we don't want someone to tell us what we need.We don't have a ton of time so not having your pricing easy to find = not worth finding out.
How can we trust a sales person if they well aren't a person to us. Online posting does take a bit to get used to being social, talk to us, joke with us tell us what you had for lunch today (seriously).
We already know what we need so don't tell us that part unless we ask you to. -
@Minion-Queen Thanks and I agree with every point. Not eating lunch today as I am short on time too
I take things a bit personally I'll admit, so your comments are taken to heart. I'm not a person who frequents the forums, so I'm not the greatest at knowing the proper format.Honestly speaking, I felt I could jump in and turn it around, without really thinking it through. My ego got in the way of my hearing for a bit, as indeed I am just another person. Thanks all.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@Minion-Queen Thanks and I agree with every point. Not eating lunch today as I am short on time too
I take things a bit personally I'll admit, so your comments are taken to heart. I'm not a person who frequents the forums, so I'm not the greatest at knowing the proper format.Honestly speaking, I felt I could jump in and turn it around, without really thinking it through. My ego got in the way of my hearing for a bit, as indeed I am just another person. Thanks all.
If you want any guidance at all I am here to help direct you! Always happy to help someone get the most out of ML.
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@Kelly said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@scottalanmiller I cannot help but feel a bit like I'm being attacked. {salesdick?}
That particular line was from @RojoLoco who is not known for mincing words in general.
^^^Truth. I refuse to mince words because I mean what I say, online or otherwise. @virtualrick, I'm not attacking you personally, I refer to every salesperson as a "sales dick". I have no use for "sales" staff in my research endeavours, and I refuse to let my decisions be swayed by them. I only posted because I, along with many others here in this community, would like to help you learn how to sell to actual IT pros, not directors/C-levels/etc. We are the ones who implement and use any given technology, and we have a certain approach and a certain set of criteria we look at when researching new technologies. Even the best product/service/technology is ruined by bad sales techniques, and we love it when vendors hear and understand that. If someone wants pricing, provide it without argument or further harassment from your sales staff. We thrive on specs and pricing, because that allows us to make our own comparisons. Save the Gartner magic bullshit and buzzwords for someone else.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
Honestly speaking, I felt I could jump in and turn it around, without really thinking it through. My ego got in the way of my hearing for a bit, as indeed I am just another person. Thanks all.
In my eyes, although I'm not in a position of any real purchasing power, you and the other poster (sorry, I forget your name!) have done a very good job. Not simply because you gave your pricing, but because you have chosen to interact with us and not run off because you felt like you were being attacked.
Many of us realize that things at Simplivity may not change overnight, but if your upper management is serious about moving into the SMB space, they'll take the information that you give them to heart.
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@dafyre Thanks, I am not in a position to change that, however the issue is raised. I will assure you I will not dodge the question when presenting to anyone.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
but keep in mind I gave pricing in my first interaction with you.
I noticed and I am extremely happy for that. It tells me that your product is not going into any of my clients currently looking towards new servers.
It also told me about the level of local server needs will justify your equipment.
I was very interested in the product as presented. I still am interested in the product after getting a ballpark range.
But I also know my client base and none of them have needs in that range currently.
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@JaredBusch Understood. When you compare to just the Hosts or servers, the TCO would be poor, however the cost of servers, storage, backup software, backup target, are usually higher as a whole. Throw in DR if its considered necessary, and the cost is usually 200% the cost of Simplivity.
We can replace all of that, and typically we reduce the sockets in the environment. In fact we support essentials plus for a 2+1 meaning 2 in an HA pair at prod and a single node at DR.
My partner and I have had some disscussions around the thread, and we are going to try to config an SMB bundle with a real street cost, it will be heavily discounted (like enterprises get) without the haggle.
If it meets the price point then great. If not then perhaps we aren't a good fit today.
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Dear everyone in this thread:
SimpliVity are amazing, and I will punch anyone who disagrees in a sensitive body part.
Listen to me: you all know me. You know that I am both a very loud customer advocate and one of the loudest, most irritating voices for dropping prices. I need to say this very loudly and very clearly: SimpliVity are a fantastic company, with top notch service and a damned-near-impossible to beat product.
Like any company, they aren't going to meet every single niche need. They certainly aren't the cheapest on the market. They aren't trying to be all things to all people and they aren't trying to be the low cost supplier, so it's not shocking that they are neither.
What they are is the absolute best, full stop, at data efficiency. Nobody manages to do data efficiency as thoroughly as they do, at the speeds they do and with the WAN efficiency that they do. This is SimpliVity's schitck, and it has real world implications.
The first is the aforementioned WAN efficiency. The second is that highly similar workloads (such as VDI) absolutely scream on SimpliVity. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Does this make SimpliVity something of a "luxury car" for hyperconvergence? Absolutely. But it's not "a Lamborghini", it's more of a "Tesla Roadster". The price isn't about pointless flash; you get something different for your money, and different enough that it becomes addictive to those who can afford to use it. The money isn't spend on flash or brand name; they deliver actual value for it.
Now, I'd be the first to piss on them for overcharging or otherwise not living up to their promise. Everyone here should know that about me by now. I have, in fact, been in multiple meetings with their top brass where I am the loudest customer advocacy voice in the room, demanding they meet this need, or that requirement, and lower the price.
Despite that, they don't deserve to be pooped on. They aren't all things to all people, but they are absolutely untouchable at what they do.
Cheers.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
My partner and I have had some disscussions around the thread, and we are going to try to config an SMB bundle with a real street cost, it will be heavily discounted (like enterprises get) without the haggle.
Now that's the kind of thing that we need. Great to see this thread making for a productive result and deliverable. Good job to everyone, I think.
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@cakeis_not_alie Thank you for the support! As I mentioned several of our customers and employees are Very passionate about our tech.
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@virtualrick I'm neither a customer, nor an employee!
SimpliVity had paid me for some work, but not in the past 6 months, as marketing money has been redirected towards engineering, and mine was the first contract on the chopping block.
I'm too poor to be a customer, however, SimpliVity did help me out once by loaning me two nodes and allowing me to review them in production as I saved a customer from dying servers in a really odd situation where the servers went just months before the location was to be shut down.
Mostly, I know about SimpliVity because I am a tech journalist who writes about hyperconvergence, so they keep me up to date on changes. I have a few friends inside and this has meant that I get to be part of the NDA briefings, and go to SimpliVity conferences. This lets me meet many happy customers.
I have also met customers with problems. And I have served as their advocate to those higher up in SimpliVity. That customer advocacy role doesn't make me many friends, and I think it's safe to say a lot more people inside SimpliVity dislike me than like me.
That said...I have had the chance to really get to know the company, it's tech, it's customers...the whole thing. I'm the first person to poop all over companies that deserve it. And there are things I would - and do - poop on SimpliVity for.
...but the stuff in this thread just isn't what SimpliVity should be yelled at for. Some times I'm on the side of the mob, raising a pitchfork and demanding vendors stop being dumbasses. This time, I find myself having to side with a vendor and saying "guys...you're off the mark".
It's rare to find good vendors. SimpliVity does a thing (data efficiency) better than anyone else. They also have committed to customer support that goes above and beyond. Both are things that they should be applauded for, and which absolutely earn them a position at the top of the hyperconvergence pile, and which should earn them a seat at the negotiating table for anyone serious about buying hyperconvergence in the 4 node+ range.
So yeah, I'll stick my neck out for SimpliVity. Because, for all their quirks and faults...they've earned that from me. There aren't a whole lot of vendors who have.
Especially not vendors that I, personally, nor my clients, can afford.
Cheers.
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@cakeis_not_alie Didn't know who you were
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
Dear everyone in this thread:
SimpliVity are amazing, and I will punch anyone who disagrees in a sensitive body part.
Listen to me: you all know me. You know that I am both a very loud customer advocate and one of the loudest, most irritating voices for dropping prices. I need to say this very loudly and very clearly: SimpliVity are a fantastic company, with top notch service and a damned-near-impossible to beat product.
Like any company, they aren't going to meet every single niche need. They certainly aren't the cheapest on the market. They aren't trying to be all things to all people and they aren't trying to be the low cost supplier, so it's not shocking that they are neither.
What they are is the absolute best, full stop, at data efficiency. Nobody manages to do data efficiency as thoroughly as they do, at the speeds they do and with the WAN efficiency that they do. This is SimpliVity's schitck, and it has real world implications.
The first is the aforementioned WAN efficiency. The second is that highly similar workloads (such as VDI) absolutely scream on SimpliVity. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Does this make SimpliVity something of a "luxury car" for hyperconvergence? Absolutely. But it's not "a Lamborghini", it's more of a "Tesla Roadster". The price isn't about pointless flash; you get something different for your money, and different enough that it becomes addictive to those who can afford to use it. The money isn't spend on flash or brand name; they deliver actual value for it.
Now, I'd be the first to piss on them for overcharging or otherwise not living up to their promise. Everyone here should know that about me by now. I have, in fact, been in multiple meetings with their top brass where I am the loudest customer advocacy voice in the room, demanding they meet this need, or that requirement, and lower the price.
Despite that, they don't deserve to be pooped on. They aren't all things to all people, but they are absolutely untouchable at what they do.
Cheers.
Thanks Trevor, that was the sort of info I was hoping for, from someone who'd had occasion to work with them and their tech. Sounds like in practice they are as awesome as the demo shows. The whole pricing side discussion has been a bit of a diversion from that, and I'm sure that there's a lot of pent up hostility from other vendor past pricing experiences that they happen to be the one to get dumped on. Thanks for chiming in, as always!
