Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab
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NTG hired me without my having a lab - But experience was taken into account. @scottalanmiller invited me here from SW, and it's evolved from there.
When I started just over a year ago (April 6, 2015) I had already worked in IT since 1988ish with several yeas on different scales of Help Desk...
So - As @Minion-Queen stated,.. it's not all B & W...
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I think there is an issue here in understanding where the "required home lab" actually fits. Let's say I am looking for a guy who can put wingnuts on bolts, and 2 guys apply for the position. Candidate #1 has been employed putting wingnuts on bolts for a handful of years, and his references look good. Candidate #2 has also got employment experience, and is obsessed with wingnuts and spends his weekends competing in wingnut fastening speed competitions (don't get lost in the analogy...). There is nothing anywhere that says that the job requires a candidate who is thoroughly obsessed with wingnuts, but which candidate is going to be better-suited to do the job? You can bring psychology into the discussion, but if all I care about is how many wingnuts are on bolts at the end of the day, you'd be hard-pressed to make a case for hiring candidate #1 when his competition for the position is candidate #2. Insert "home lab" in place of speed competitions, and look at how obvious it is. The applicant who is all about technology has a competitive edge over the applicant who is only interested in doing 9-5 and getting a paycheck. It doesn't make that attitude wrong, and it has nothing to do with fair or unfair. Each person does what they choose to do. They must live with the consequences of those choices. If the better applicant gets hired, and you don't like it, figure out how to be more competitive so you can be the better applicant next time.
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@Minion-Queen I can portray passion for my job, because I am passionate about it. If I were being hired at ntg I would show my on the job accomplishments, I would show how I constantly strive to better than I was the day before, through gaining knowledge on the job. Yes my learning of IT stops after I am done for the day, why? Because I value my family time. I value the time with my 2 month old son (time which if spent working on my home lab I wouldn't get back). I value the time spent away from a computer because it keeps me grounded Now this does not mean that if I get a call from an executive who needs my help, that I wouldn't answer and help them. This means that I value the work/life balance. I work to live, I don't live to work.
Passion can be shown in many different ways, as can dedication. I am very dedicated and will put in time when needed and or asked to. For me however I don't see having a home lab as not being passionate, it just means that my time is spent in other ways.
I feel it is very important to not be married to work. You need that separation to keep you grounded (at least I do).
The question that should be asked is does the dedication to the IT industry mean you should sacrifice your hobbies?
I guess at the end of the day my accomplishments should speak for themselves. If you don't find me qualified than so be it, but to have a qualifier of well this person has a home lab and this person doesn't, to me is crap. A job shouldn't ever be based on what someone choses to do with their time outside of the office. Maybe I am an oddball that likes to get away from all things tech, but that is me. And obviously I wouldn't fit in at ntg because of this.
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@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
A job shouldn't ever be based on what someone choses to do with their time outside of the office.You've obviously never applied for a high-level position. Your life goes under the magnifying glass, including social media posts, etc. That's absolutely how it's done.
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I think the whole "homelab or not" thing also depends on what type of learner you are. For me, it's mostly reading some docs, blogs, howto's etc in the evening / weekend and that's it. There's rarely a thing I have to run in my home lab (yes, I have one, but it's rarely in use) to actually understand it. Others may need to get hands-on, and that's ok -> type of learner. There are cases where you just have to get your hands dirty: Postfix, for example. Awesome piece of software, but you can easily screw things up which may either result in an open relay or a non-working system.
So for me, a home lab would be "nice to have, but not a hard requirement at all".
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@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I think you basing your decision on hiring someone on whether they have a home lab or not is complete and udder crap. For example, I do have a media "sever" but that is it. I chose to not spend my money (whether it be on a home server or the electricity to power said home server) on things I have access to at work. My time out the office is my time, spent with family, doing things I enjoy. Not having my head buried in technology (I do that enough at work).
Scott you are different than most since you have come out and said that you cannot disconnect from technology (even when you are on vacation). Those like myself like to leave technology at work. When I get home, I usually (if I can) leave my cell phone on the opposite end of my house and spend time outside. When I go on the weekend camping trips, my phone stays in my tent. We as a society have become so dependent on technology to run our daily lives, we lose sight with the fact that the things we did as children, (hanging out with friends, playing at the park and not coming home until dinner...etc.) we no longer do. Most adults have their heads on a permanent 25 degree downward angle with a phone/tablet glued to their hands.
Yes IT is a hobby/passion but that does not mean IT needs to be your life. I think you discounting someone based on if they have a home server or not is total bs.
I'll disagree with this for the following reason(s):
People who are into IT, not just doing it for the money, do it as a hobby as well. They are constantly learning. That's not to say that you have to go home and spend hours and hours working on learning new things.. Maybe it's once a week, or even once a month. The point is, unless your office has lab space you can use on your own time, the chances are that you need a lab to learn new things. I don't know about your job, but my previous jobs never had lab equipment nor dedicated on the clock time for me to learn.. .that was my responsibility. It was like going to school - that was completely on me, on my own time, not up to my office to give me time and resources to do it. Now some better jobs have offered reimbursement for that education after I paid and passed the class.
If you only do IT stuff while on the clock at work, how do you grow and learn new things?
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@art_of_shred said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
A job shouldn't ever be based on what someone choses to do with their time outside of the office.You've obviously never applied for a high-level position. Your life goes under the magnifying glass, including social media posts, etc. That's absolutely how it's done.
that is beyond the scope of the OP in my opinion. There were no qualifiers put on what type of position was being applied for. The question was asked, would you hire someone who does not have a home lab? I have been in IT for 9 years so no, I haven't applied for a high level position.
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@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
If you only do IT stuff while on the clock at work, how do you grow and learn new things?
Unless maybe you have an awesome job that provides resources and time for that kind of stuff. But those are pretty rare. And it only works while you have that job, if you leave that job for any reason, it would go away. But you could make a home lab after leaving or losing the job.
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@StrongBad said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
If you only do IT stuff while on the clock at work, how do you grow and learn new things?
Unless maybe you have an awesome job that provides resources and time for that kind of stuff. But those are pretty rare. And it only works while you have that job, if you leave that job for any reason, it would go away. But you could make a home lab after leaving or losing the job.
Wasn't it Google who encourages you to spend a certain amount of your working time doing things you like, like contributing to open source projects?
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So, maybe the better answer isn't "no, we wouldn't" and is more "probably not, because we don't have to". If we get a steady enough flow of interested applicants who all have the drive to learn and have home labs, what chance does a more casual applicant have against that competition? Likely not a whole lot. Ergo, it's a simple precursory way to thin the herd.
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@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
The question that should be asked is does the dedication to the IT industry mean you should sacrifice your hobbies?
A better question, if IT isn't your hobby, should you have a different job? One that more closely matches you true likes and desires.
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@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
The question that should be asked is does the dedication to the IT industry mean you should sacrifice your hobbies?
A better question, if IT isn't your hobby, should you have a different job? One that more closely matches you true likes and desires.
Would you ask a car mechanic the same who doesn't want to fix cars in his free time?
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@thwr said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@StrongBad said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
If you only do IT stuff while on the clock at work, how do you grow and learn new things?
Unless maybe you have an awesome job that provides resources and time for that kind of stuff. But those are pretty rare. And it only works while you have that job, if you leave that job for any reason, it would go away. But you could make a home lab after leaving or losing the job.
Wasn't it Google who encourages you to spend a certain amount of your working time doing things you like, like contributing to open source projects?
Maybe so, but how many of us work for companies like Google? I know I don't.
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@thwr said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
The question that should be asked is does the dedication to the IT industry mean you should sacrifice your hobbies?
A better question, if IT isn't your hobby, should you have a different job? One that more closely matches you true likes and desires.
Would you ask a car mechanic the same who doesn't want to fix cars in his free time?
Most mechanics I know also have their own fun cars they work on as a hobby.
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@thwr said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
The question that should be asked is does the dedication to the IT industry mean you should sacrifice your hobbies?
A better question, if IT isn't your hobby, should you have a different job? One that more closely matches you true likes and desires.
Would you ask a car mechanic the same who doesn't want to fix cars in his free time?
If I'm hiring a car mechanic for high end cars or something like Indy car racing - absolutely, and if they said no.. I'd bin their application. NTG is at the top of the field. Some companies put themselves there. They want the most enthusiastic for IT group they can get. As Danielle said, you can't teach enthusiasm, but you can teach skills. So far, their needs have been met buy people with either both enthusiasm and skills or just enthusiasm, and they taught them the skills. when the work pool starts to dry up, and they have fewer choices, they will have to be less picky on who they pick.
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@Minion-Queen said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Well also the argument comes in that why should I pay someone to work on a client's environment if you don't at least have some idea. I can't charge a client for a staff member to learn. Where do you fit your learning time in, if when you are at work you are..working?
It should be built in to the pricing. If you are charging a client $300 an hour, it's not like you are paying your IT person $250 an hour so that is where the margin is built in. You are more than likely paying them $25-$100 an hour.
Training should be done on company time IMO. Our company spent an extra million dollars YTD on training this year, but on our bottom line we made an extra $60 million YTD. So you reap what you sow.
With on the clock training, and more encouragement towards certfications and such you get happier employees. I believe a company should pay for a calls or certification each year as long as the employee is interested. Higher skilled employees means better efficiency, and higher skilled employees lead to better clients and more money in the long run.
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It's kinda simple. You're building a team. Do you pick people looking for a paycheck, or people with a passion about what you're doing? If you have the option, you're looking for passion... or you shouldn't be the one doing the hiring.
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@art_of_shred said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@thwr said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
The question that should be asked is does the dedication to the IT industry mean you should sacrifice your hobbies?
A better question, if IT isn't your hobby, should you have a different job? One that more closely matches you true likes and desires.
Would you ask a car mechanic the same who doesn't want to fix cars in his free time?
Most mechanics I know also have their own fun cars they work on as a hobby.
Mechanics have the mostly beaters in my experience. There is no need for FUN as they break down enough already
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@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@thwr said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@david.wiese said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
The question that should be asked is does the dedication to the IT industry mean you should sacrifice your hobbies?
A better question, if IT isn't your hobby, should you have a different job? One that more closely matches you true likes and desires.
Would you ask a car mechanic the same who doesn't want to fix cars in his free time?
If I'm hiring a car mechanic for high end cars or something like Indy car racing - absolutely, and if they said no.. I'd bin their application. NTG is at the top of the field. Some companies put themselves there. They want the most enthusiastic for IT group they can get. As Danielle said, you can't teach enthusiasm, but you can teach skills. So far, their needs have been met buy people with either both enthusiasm and skills or just enthusiasm, and they taught them the skills. when the work pool starts to dry up, and they have fewer choices, they will have to be less picky on who they pick.
I agree from a personal point of view. But I can't expect everyone to be like this. Maybe someone just wants to do his job, that's ok. We should keep a few things in mind here:
- Salary
- Position
- Goals
for example. I wouldn't expect a Level 1 helpdesk tech to have a small datacenter in his basement, he care barely live from what he carries home. If we are talking about a 100-150k+ position, it's a whole different story.
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@IRJ said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@Minion-Queen said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Well also the argument comes in that why should I pay someone to work on a client's environment if you don't at least have some idea. I can't charge a client for a staff member to learn. Where do you fit your learning time in, if when you are at work you are..working?
It should be built in to the pricing. If you are charging a client $300 an hour, it's not like you are paying your IT person $250 an hour so that is where the margin is built in. You are more than likely paying them $25-$100 an hour.
Training should be done on company time IMO. Our company spent an extra million dollars YTD on training this year, but on our bottom line we made an extra $60 million YTD. So you reap what you sow.
With on the clock training, and more encouragement towards certfications and such you get happier employees. I believe a company should pay for a calls or certification each year as long as the employee is interested. Higher skilled employees means better efficiency, and higher skilled employees lead to better clients and more money in the long run.
I wish we had those margins.
