Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab
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@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
IMO, if I need to learn something for work - I learn at work/on the job.
So as a potential employer, what I hear is.... I'd have to train you for everything. Why hire someone that needs trained always, instead of someone who learns what is needed? Would you hire a lawyer that hasn't learned law yet? Or a doctor that hasn't learned medicine yet? What profession hires people who only learn the job after being hired?
Why assume somebody is applying for a job the description of duties advertised isn't a match? If I cannot do the job, i'd not apply. Of course, if I got the job and needed to learn something, I then would - as its now needed.
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@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because it is fun, and it is what causes us to move forward in our professions.
Its not as fun as spending time with family. We all have our own needs from life - personally time with loved ones is top priority over learning things I may never use.
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@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@coliver said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I have a laptop, but no real home lab. I have done the odd thing I've been really interested in, but not often.
IMO, if I need to learn something for work - I learn at work/on the job.
If I don't need to learn something 'IT' for work, i'm most likely not going to spend time learning it at home - I have no use for it.^ of course, at the point it is needed for work, if, then I will learn at work as its needed.
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because you are genuinely curious and passionate about technology? I will probably never use KVM on the job but I would like to know how to do things in it if I ever do need it. Many technologies that I implemented in my home lab I have brought to my job as a resource.
Also, as IT, we make decisions about what to use on the job. How do you know what to use at work, if you haven't been playing with it?
Research when a project comes up.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
IMO, if I need to learn something for work - I learn at work/on the job.
So as a potential employer, what I hear is.... I'd have to train you for everything. Why hire someone that needs trained always, instead of someone who learns what is needed? Would you hire a lawyer that hasn't learned law yet? Or a doctor that hasn't learned medicine yet? What profession hires people who only learn the job after being hired?
Why assume somebody is applying for a job the description of duties advertised isn't a match? If I cannot do the job, i'd not apply. Of course, if I got the job and needed to learn something, I then would - as its now needed.
That's not the point I was trying to make. Let's say that your current job is X. As with most IT jobs, no other job out there is exactly X, or even all that reasonably close. IT jobs are highly unique. If you are not learning things at home, when would you ever learn what is needed for the next job or, for that matter, the first one?
If you aren't learning on your own, you'd never be qualified for any first IT job, and then never be qualified for another IT job unless you got that one unique situation where your own employer decided to train you for a job change, which is fine, but rare.
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@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
YAGNI.
That's a good principle, but doesn't apply to education
Heh, indeed. Although, it somewhat does. If i'm not going to need it, its not useful to learn. If a job requires it, at that point i'd spend time learning it - quite possibly in my own time. But before then, no point.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because it is fun, and it is what causes us to move forward in our professions.
Its not as fun as spending time with family. We all have our own needs from life - personally time with loved ones is top priority over learning things I may never use.
I agree here. Spending time with family is a top priority, but so is investing in yourself. I tend to bounce around with my free time (time to myself). Sometimes I'm tinkering in my home lab and other times, I'm not.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@coliver said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I have a laptop, but no real home lab. I have done the odd thing I've been really interested in, but not often.
IMO, if I need to learn something for work - I learn at work/on the job.
If I don't need to learn something 'IT' for work, i'm most likely not going to spend time learning it at home - I have no use for it.^ of course, at the point it is needed for work, if, then I will learn at work as its needed.
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because you are genuinely curious and passionate about technology? I will probably never use KVM on the job but I would like to know how to do things in it if I ever do need it. Many technologies that I implemented in my home lab I have brought to my job as a resource.
Also, as IT, we make decisions about what to use on the job. How do you know what to use at work, if you haven't been playing with it?
Research when a project comes up.
That's an insanely costly and ineffective means of doing it most of the time. I have to make decisions constantly, often in a meeting. There is no time to research, especially if I have to question things already proposed. Researching might take weeks or months and in some cases years. Decisions often have to be in minutes.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
YAGNI.
That's a good principle, but doesn't apply to education
Heh, indeed. Although, it somewhat does. If i'm not going to need it, its not useful to learn. If a job requires it, at that point i'd spend time learning it - quite possibly in my own time. But before then, no point.
What if you couldn't get the job without already knowing (or at least having a basic understanding of) it?
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@dafyre said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because it is fun, and it is what causes us to move forward in our professions.
Its not as fun as spending time with family. We all have our own needs from life - personally time with loved ones is top priority over learning things I may never use.
I agree here. Spending time with family is a top priority, but so is investing in yourself. I tend to bounce around with my free time (time to myself). Sometimes I'm tinkering in my home lab and other times, I'm not.
I don't see one as taking away from the other. I know for certain that my investments in learning is what has given me so much family time.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
YAGNI.
That's a good principle, but doesn't apply to education
Heh, indeed. Although, it somewhat does. If i'm not going to need it, its not useful to learn. If a job requires it, at that point i'd spend time learning it - quite possibly in my own time. But before then, no point.
"Need it" or "can use it" are the differences here. You can get away without knowing any IT at all... by being a janitor or flipping burgers. But if you want a good career, you probably will need to know things. Knowing things you "don't need" are the ways to get into careers you want, rather than jobs you need.
And this applies way outside of IT. This is why universities teach literature, art, music, accounting, etc.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because it is fun, and it is what causes us to move forward in our professions.
Its not as fun as spending time with family. We all have our own needs from life - personally time with loved ones is top priority over learning things I may never use.
Why does one come at the cost of the other? I've always found them to go hand in hand.
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@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@coliver said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I have a laptop, but no real home lab. I have done the odd thing I've been really interested in, but not often.
IMO, if I need to learn something for work - I learn at work/on the job.
If I don't need to learn something 'IT' for work, i'm most likely not going to spend time learning it at home - I have no use for it.^ of course, at the point it is needed for work, if, then I will learn at work as its needed.
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because you are genuinely curious and passionate about technology? I will probably never use KVM on the job but I would like to know how to do things in it if I ever do need it. Many technologies that I implemented in my home lab I have brought to my job as a resource.
Also, as IT, we make decisions about what to use on the job. How do you know what to use at work, if you haven't been playing with it?
Research when a project comes up.
That's an insanely costly and ineffective means of doing it most of the time. I have to make decisions constantly, often in a meeting. There is no time to research, especially if I have to question things already proposed. Researching might take weeks or months and in some cases years. Decisions often have to be in minutes.
Yes, but using my OWN time to learn to is a detriment when all it does is save the COMPANY time. Sure, give me 'research days' to do this stuff or an allowance. But don't expect me to learn everything possible to learn in case 'something' comes up and needs a quick answer.
Research such things at work, for work. Home is for home.
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@dafyre said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
YAGNI.
That's a good principle, but doesn't apply to education
Heh, indeed. Although, it somewhat does. If i'm not going to need it, its not useful to learn. If a job requires it, at that point i'd spend time learning it - quite possibly in my own time. But before then, no point.
What if you couldn't get the job without already knowing (or at least having a basic understanding of) it?
At THAT time i'd either learn this, like I did say, or not apply.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because it is fun, and it is what causes us to move forward in our professions.
Its not as fun as spending time with family. We all have our own needs from life - personally time with loved ones is top priority over learning things I may never use.
So you have absolutely no personal time where you work on hobbies, etc? That's what most are talking about here. When others might be off playing basketball, others will be playing in a lab, learning - because that's what they enjoy doing more than playing basketball.
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@dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because it is fun, and it is what causes us to move forward in our professions.
Its not as fun as spending time with family. We all have our own needs from life - personally time with loved ones is top priority over learning things I may never use.
So you have absolutely no personal time where you work on hobbies, etc? That's what most are talking about here. When others might be off playing basketball, others will be playing in a lab, learning - because that's what they enjoy doing more than playing basketball.
Pretty much this. My home lab is a hobby for me. I like seeing how technology works and how it can be applied in the "real" world.
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@dashrender said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because it is fun, and it is what causes us to move forward in our professions.
Its not as fun as spending time with family. We all have our own needs from life - personally time with loved ones is top priority over learning things I may never use.
So you have absolutely no personal time where you work on hobbies, etc? That's what most are talking about here. When others might be off playing basketball, others will be playing in a lab, learning - because that's what they enjoy doing more than playing basketball.
Of course. But learning a random arbitrary IT 'thing' has no use unless that thing is needed - say at work. If that's the case, work has a responsibility to engage end provide that time, not me.
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@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because it is fun, and it is what causes us to move forward in our professions.
Its not as fun as spending time with family. We all have our own needs from life - personally time with loved ones is top priority over learning things I may never use.
Why does one come at the cost of the other? I've always found them to go hand in hand.
Now, as in my basketball example, I don't find I agree with Scott here at all. Education takes time away from anything else you're doing unless the family is learning the same thing as you at the same time. I'm not really sure how Scott gets more time with family because he spends time getting educated.
The only thing I can think is that he's robbing Peter to pay Paul. i.e. he spends time now self educating, and then later he will already have that education when decision time comes, so he can make a fast decision then, and return to the family faster at that future point.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@coliver said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I have a laptop, but no real home lab. I have done the odd thing I've been really interested in, but not often.
IMO, if I need to learn something for work - I learn at work/on the job.
If I don't need to learn something 'IT' for work, i'm most likely not going to spend time learning it at home - I have no use for it.^ of course, at the point it is needed for work, if, then I will learn at work as its needed.
Why spend valuable free time with family learning something that you will possibly never ever use. Learn something when its needed and save wasted time learning something that's never needed.
Because you are genuinely curious and passionate about technology? I will probably never use KVM on the job but I would like to know how to do things in it if I ever do need it. Many technologies that I implemented in my home lab I have brought to my job as a resource.
Also, as IT, we make decisions about what to use on the job. How do you know what to use at work, if you haven't been playing with it?
Research when a project comes up.
That's an insanely costly and ineffective means of doing it most of the time. I have to make decisions constantly, often in a meeting. There is no time to research, especially if I have to question things already proposed. Researching might take weeks or months and in some cases years. Decisions often have to be in minutes.
Yes, but using my OWN time to learn to is a detriment when all it does is save the COMPANY time. Sure, give me 'research days' to do this stuff or an allowance. But don't expect me to learn everything possible to learn in case 'something' comes up and needs a quick answer.
Research such things at work, for work. Home is for home.
No, you've missed the point - it's not about work vs home - it's about improving yourself. Does that benefit your company? of course, but does it benefit you more when it's time to find another job - hell yes it does.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@dafyre said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
YAGNI.
That's a good principle, but doesn't apply to education
Heh, indeed. Although, it somewhat does. If i'm not going to need it, its not useful to learn. If a job requires it, at that point i'd spend time learning it - quite possibly in my own time. But before then, no point.
What if you couldn't get the job without already knowing (or at least having a basic understanding of) it?
At THAT time i'd either learn this, like I did say, or not apply.
So you are agreeing that you'd use a home lab and self education, but only if you pre-determined to make a specific job leap? So basically always staying in the same position, not proactively preparing for changing jobs and not exploring other areas that might be of interest?
Nothing wrong with that, but it seems very risky to be focused so much on the reliability of a single, current job both because you are employer dependent and because you are technology dependent and because it means that there is little upward mobility. Maybe you love where you are, nothing wrong with that, the industry needs more people that find what they love and don't explore other avenues that they won't like as much. But most people don't get there until late in their careers.
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@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@dafyre said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@jimmy9008 said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
YAGNI.
That's a good principle, but doesn't apply to education
Heh, indeed. Although, it somewhat does. If i'm not going to need it, its not useful to learn. If a job requires it, at that point i'd spend time learning it - quite possibly in my own time. But before then, no point.
What if you couldn't get the job without already knowing (or at least having a basic understanding of) it?
At THAT time i'd either learn this, like I did say, or not apply.
It's to late to learn it then.. they are hiring now - it might take you months or years to learn it.. by then the job is long gone.
