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    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved IT Discussion
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    • mlnewsM
      mlnews
      last edited by

      Oh, I guess no luck then. You had mentioned 8, I was surprised you were trying the older version.

      DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • DashrenderD
        Dashrender @mlnews
        last edited by

        @mlnews said:

        Oh, I guess no luck then. You had mentioned 8, I was surprised you were trying the older version.

        Frankly I use 8 and 8.1 interchangeably - typically it doesn't matter, though in this case it might.

        I found this page
        http://dellwindowsreinstallationguide.com/download-microsoft-windows-and-office/download-microsoft-windows/download-windows-8-1-retail-and-oem-iso/#Downloading

        that talks about there being 3 different versions of non Pro you can download using the tool. I'm trying again to see what I get.

        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @Dashrender
          last edited by

          @Dashrender said:

          Frankly I use 8 and 8.1 interchangeably - typically it doesn't matter, though in this case it might.

          No different than using 7 and 8 interchangeably or 8.1 and 10. It's a separate OS with a different kernel. It's part of the Vista -> 7 -> 8 -> 8.1 -> 10 desktop family.

          Windows 8 is 2012 and NT 6.2. Windows 8.1 is 2012 R2 and NT 6.3.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • DashrenderD
            Dashrender
            last edited by

            Yes teacher - I understand... Frankly calling it 8.1 was the dumbest, it would have been better off called Windows 8 second edition... this point names imply to the masses (obviously not to people like Scott) that the lineage is very close and the above distinction is unwarranted.

            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • scottalanmillerS
              scottalanmiller @Dashrender
              last edited by

              @Dashrender said:

              Yes teacher - I understand... Frankly calling it 8.1 was the dumbest, it would have been better off called Windows 8 second edition... this point names imply to the masses (obviously not to people like Scott) that the lineage is very close and the above distinction is unwarranted.

              It implies but is incorrect. Very important that IT not treat the naming casually. It can matter, like in this case, where we are talking about licensing or compatibility or features. Really, when doesn't it matter? It's easy to say that they are similar, but they are still as different as any two others members of the same lineage when it comes to what matters (solving problems, knowing how things work, licensing, etc.) While they "look" similar, I can't think of any scenario where not knowing which OS you are discussing doesn't matter.

              Absolutely the naming was terrible. The .1 makes people feel one thing. But they sort of corrected that by jumping to 10, reverse implying that it was spiritually 9.

              JaredBuschJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • JaredBuschJ
                JaredBusch @scottalanmiller
                last edited by

                @scottalanmiller said:

                reverse implying that it was spiritually 9.

                Not even once have I ever seen that inferred. So I would say not.

                scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller
                  last edited by

                  Windows 8 SE would not be the same, in theory. There should have been no connection to Windows 8 as it was a full OS. It should have been 9 or something weird like Vista was, just a name. It wasn't an update to 8, it was a full fledged new OS. And even the visual components of the interface changed.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • scottalanmillerS
                    scottalanmiller @JaredBusch
                    last edited by

                    @JaredBusch said:

                    Not even once have I ever seen that inferred. So I would say not.

                    Why not? Doesn't the missing link between 8 and 10 imply nothing more or less than the completely "read into" implication of .1? What makes one more meaningful than the other?

                    JaredBuschJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • DashrenderD
                      Dashrender
                      last edited by

                      Because as Jared said, no one other than you has ever said that that I've read.

                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller
                        last edited by

                        Otherwise, what does the leap to 10 imply? Does it imply that the number means literally nothing (which I would agree with) which then does actually mean that 8 -> 8.1 doesn't mean anything more than 8.1 -> 10. Or does it imply that 8.1 -> 10 was a step so large as to qualify as a double jump?

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • JaredBuschJ
                          JaredBusch @scottalanmiller
                          last edited by

                          @scottalanmiller said:

                          @JaredBusch said:

                          Not even once have I ever seen that inferred. So I would say not.

                          Why not? Doesn't the missing link between 8 and 10 imply nothing more or less than the completely "read into" implication of .1? What makes one more meaningful than the other?

                          Nope, it does not. In fact I, find the 9 being skipped as more likely to avoid issue with old legacy code as implied by some snarky posts back when it was announced. When code checked for "Windows 9*" implying 95/98. There is a serious amount of old bad code still in active use out there.

                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • scottalanmillerS
                            scottalanmiller @Dashrender
                            last edited by

                            @Dashrender said:

                            Because as Jared said, no one other than you has ever said that that I've read.

                            Okay, but does that change the implication? Why do you feel it is okay to imply something in one case and not the other? Just because it's become common can be because one happened first, one was picked up by the media, one is easier to be lazy about, etc.

                            JaredBuschJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • DashrenderD
                              Dashrender
                              last edited by

                              This whole 8 vs 8.1 presents a whole load of problems, especially in the arena of Licenses and keys, etc.

                              If you had Windows 8, you received (or at least could) a free upgrade to Windows 8.1, BUT the Windows 8 key won't work for Windows 8.1. So, when you have to reinstall for whatever reason, if you have a Windows 8 key in your UEFI, then I'm pretty sure you must start with a Windows 8 installation, then go and upgrade to 8.1.... what a pain!

                              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @JaredBusch
                                last edited by

                                @JaredBusch said:

                                Nope, it does not. In fact I, find the 9 being skipped as more likely to avoid issue with old legacy code as implied by some snarky posts back when it was announced. When code checked for "Windows 9*" implying 95/98. There is a serious amount of old bad code still in active use out there.

                                Okay, that makes a little sense. But supports that 8.1 was nine as much as anything else.

                                DashrenderD JaredBuschJ 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • JaredBuschJ
                                  JaredBusch @scottalanmiller
                                  last edited by

                                  @scottalanmiller said:

                                  @Dashrender said:

                                  Because as Jared said, no one other than you has ever said that that I've read.

                                  Okay, but does that change the implication? Why do you feel it is okay to imply something in one case and not the other? Just because it's become common can be because one happened first, one was picked up by the media, one is easier to be lazy about, etc.

                                  Yes it changes the implication from an implication assumed by everyone to an implication assumed by you.

                                  For the most part allWindows naming is for marketing purposes. I would feel more confident that actually skipped Windows 9 to avoid marketing memories of Windows 95/98 than anything else.

                                  scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @Dashrender
                                    last edited by

                                    @Dashrender said:

                                    This whole 8 vs 8.1 presents a whole load of problems, especially in the arena of Licenses and keys, etc.

                                    If you had Windows 8, you received (or at least could) a free upgrade to Windows 8.1, BUT the Windows 8 key won't work for Windows 8.1. So, when you have to reinstall for whatever reason, if you have a Windows 8 key in your UEFI, then I'm pretty sure you must start with a Windows 8 installation, then go and upgrade to 8.1.... what a pain!

                                    Yes, they've done some really weird things with licensing. Part of that comes from the server side starting with 2003. They wanted to bring out updates but only force license updates half as often. So they started this insane R2 naming thing. There was nothing tying the 2003 to 2003 R2, or 2008 to 2008 R2 releases except that they got to share some licenses. It has caused no end of end user confusion. Which is why I'm so adamant about accuracy in how IT talks about these things. When we are casual about product names, versions, etc. it is easy to make mistakes, have bad information, etc.

                                    DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • DashrenderD
                                      Dashrender @scottalanmiller
                                      last edited by

                                      @scottalanmiller said:

                                      @JaredBusch said:

                                      Nope, it does not. In fact I, find the 9 being skipped as more likely to avoid issue with old legacy code as implied by some snarky posts back when it was announced. When code checked for "Windows 9*" implying 95/98. There is a serious amount of old bad code still in active use out there.

                                      Okay, that makes a little sense. But supports that 8.1 was nine as much as anything else.

                                      That's a great point, and one I had heard before, but forgot. But really 8 Second Edition really implies a new version. 8.1 does not at least to the straw pole I just took, imply a new version, only an upgrade, and probably a minor one at that.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • JaredBuschJ
                                        JaredBusch @scottalanmiller
                                        last edited by

                                        @scottalanmiller said:

                                        Okay, that makes a little sense. But supports that 8.1 was nine as much as anything else.

                                        No it does not support it. It does not go against your implication, true. But it also does not support your implication. You are trying to drum up your own opinion by stating that a fact that does not invalidate your opinion, is in fact validating it. That is not how it works.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • scottalanmillerS
                                          scottalanmiller @JaredBusch
                                          last edited by

                                          @JaredBusch said:

                                          @scottalanmiller said:

                                          @Dashrender said:

                                          Because as Jared said, no one other than you has ever said that that I've read.

                                          Okay, but does that change the implication? Why do you feel it is okay to imply something in one case and not the other? Just because it's become common can be because one happened first, one was picked up by the media, one is easier to be lazy about, etc.

                                          Yes it changes the implication from an implication assumed by everyone to an implication assumed by you.

                                          For the most part allWindows naming is for marketing purposes. I would feel more confident that actually skipped Windows 9 to avoid marketing memories of Windows 95/98 than anything else.

                                          Likewise, I've never heard this from anyone but you. So the "just one person's opinion" thing equally applies. I've never heard anyone state that they felt that the number 9 reminds people of 95 and 98 nor that those things carried bad memories. That seems an immense leap of marketing. What a long association or weirdness to think that people would have and doesn't make any sense given that the use of 8.1 did the opposite - associated a "fix" with the bad memory of 8 when they could have distanced themselves from something that was actively a bad memory rather than something I've never heard of stated as a bad memory from nearly two decades ago.

                                          JaredBuschJ DashrenderD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • DashrenderD
                                            Dashrender @scottalanmiller
                                            last edited by

                                            @scottalanmiller said:

                                            @Dashrender said:

                                            This whole 8 vs 8.1 presents a whole load of problems, especially in the arena of Licenses and keys, etc.

                                            If you had Windows 8, you received (or at least could) a free upgrade to Windows 8.1, BUT the Windows 8 key won't work for Windows 8.1. So, when you have to reinstall for whatever reason, if you have a Windows 8 key in your UEFI, then I'm pretty sure you must start with a Windows 8 installation, then go and upgrade to 8.1.... what a pain!

                                            Yes, they've done some really weird things with licensing. Part of that comes from the server side starting with 2003. They wanted to bring out updates but only force license updates half as often. So they started this insane R2 naming thing. There was nothing tying the 2003 to 2003 R2, or 2008 to 2008 R2 releases except that they got to share some licenses. It has caused no end of end user confusion. Which is why I'm so adamant about accuracy in how IT talks about these things. When we are casual about product names, versions, etc. it is easy to make mistakes, have bad information, etc.

                                            Touche - I do the same thing - for whatever reason I just don't consider the need in Windows 8 vs 8.1 - but you are correct and I should correct myself.

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